Symbio Energy feedback

greenguppie

greenguppie said:

PennineAcute said:

So, today I have had a phone call from Symbio asking if I wanted to upgrade my SMET1 meter.

As things stand at the moment, ZOG can read my SMET1 gas meter, so I asked if this upgrade would prevent ZOG from auto reading my meter.  He said that he did not know - so I am assuming the answer is yes.  This would then also prevent me from seeing my gas usage on my IHD, which I use for my spreadsheet.

I then asked if ZOG could read my SMET1 meter, then why could Symbio not read my electricity meter.  I was told that this upgrade would have to go through a third party, which would cost Symbio.

I declined their offer of an upgrade on the basis that I would in fact make me worse off than I am now. 

1) Instead of having to give Symbio a meter reading, I would have to give ZOG a meter reading - so problem not solved
2) I would not be able to see my gas usage on my IHD.

...

I admit I don't understand much about smart meters, and so apologies if I say anything here if it is wrong (if anyone has better knowledge, please feel free to correct me). But at least it means my basic comprehension means I can only give very basic explanation.

As I understand it, your energy supplier is responsible for arranging the installation of the electric, and where a supply exists, a gas smart meter.
It does not matter that you buy your gas from a different supplier to your electricity, if you have both gas and electricity supplied to the property, then whichever supplier is arranging the installation, they must cater for both meters.

...

greenguppie said:

PennineAcute said:

greenguppie said:

PennineAcute said:

So, today I have had a phone call from Symbio asking if I wanted to upgrade my SMET1 meter.

As things stand at the moment, ZOG can read my SMET1 gas meter, so I asked if this upgrade would prevent ZOG from auto reading my meter.  He said that he did not know - so I am assuming the answer is yes.  This would then also prevent me from seeing my gas usage on my IHD, which I use for my spreadsheet.

I then asked if ZOG could read my SMET1 meter, then why could Symbio not read my electricity meter.  I was told that this upgrade would have to go through a third party, which would cost Symbio.

I declined their offer of an upgrade on the basis that I would in fact make me worse off than I am now. 

1) Instead of having to give Symbio a meter reading, I would have to give ZOG a meter reading - so problem not solved
2) I would not be able to see my gas usage on my IHD.

This sounds more of a general smart metering issue, rather than a specific energy supplier issue.

Which supplier originally arranged the installation of your smart meters, and when were they installed?

I admit I don't understand much about smart meters, and so apologies if I say anything here if it is wrong (if anyone has better knowledge, please feel free to correct me). But at least it means my basic comprehension means I can only give very basic explanation.

As I understand it, your energy supplier is responsible for arranging the installation of the electric, and where a supply exists, a gas smart meter.
It does not matter that you buy your gas from a different supplier to your electricity, if you have both gas and electricity supplied to the property, then whichever supplier is arranging the installation, they must cater for both meters.

I think this is because the gas smart meter sends the information only to the electricity smart meter, and the electricity meter is the 'master' smart meter that then sends the information out to wherever the supplier can obtain it from.

SMETS1 refers to the first generation of smart meters.
I understood the main shortcoming of this meter is that it often only allowed access to the data it transmitted to the supplier that arranged it's installation.
If you switched supplier, the meter effectively then only operated as a dumb meter, and you would need to provide manual readings to your supplier

SMETS2 refers to the second generation of smart meters that allows access to the data by any supplier, so switching supplier is not an issue.
(some suppliers, particularly the smaller ones, are still getting the technology installed to allow them access to retrieve the data, but all suppliers are now subscribed to the service. small steps ...)

It was hoped that most SMETS1 meters could be updated via an over-the- air update, that would then allow all suppliers to access the data they transmit.
I'm not sure how successful that has been, and in any event, there were always going to be some SMETS1 that were incapable of being updated, and so the only other alternative would be to replace them with SMETS2 meters (or allow then to continue as dumb meters if you ever changed supplier)

In your case, you have electricity currently supplied by an electricity only supplier, and gas currently supplied by a gas only supplier.
Therefore, at least one of those suppliers was not the original installing supplier, and I strongly suspect nether were.

So I was wondering how either were able to currently access your SMETS1  data remotely, unless the meters have already been updated via the OTA update?

What update are Symbio offering you? Presumably to update both gas and electric to SMETS2 meters? In that case, there should be no reason that Zog (your gas supplier) would not then be able to access your gas meter data, especially if they can already access the data supplied by your SMETS1 meter (assuming as I suspect they did not originally install it).

If Symbio replace your SMETS1 meters with SMETS2 meters, then they should also supply a new IHD (or use the existing one) and ensure both gas & electric data is displayed on that IHD.
It may take a short while (hours or a couple of days at the most) for Zog energy to send your correct gas tariff data so that if reflects the correct cost on the IHD.

I heard most people have turned off their IHD anyway, and saved the electric that it consumes. I was told it was an interesting novelty when first intsalled, but that the novelty soon wore off for most.

Anyway, in your situation, even on the worst case scenario, I think I would allow Symbio to carry out the update.
Worst case is that things don't go smoothly and you are left with only an smart electric meter as you fear.
But at least Symbio will then receive actual meter readings, without you having to remember to provide them manually. I understand that if Symbio do not receive an actual meter reading, they estimate a massively inflated one.

At least with Zog energy, if you fail to provide a meter reading one month, their estimates will be proportionate to what they believe your annual consumption is and in accordance with previous readings you have prtovided them with ... just like 99.999% of all supplers manage to do. Just not Symbio Energy.

Best case scenario is that Symbio will be installing SMETS2 meters, and both suppliers get access to their required data, meaning no more manual meter reading submissions required to either supplier.

My meters were installed by Scottish Power in 2017, when I had their dual fuel.

I have used my IHD from day 1, as I use this info to update my spreadsheet.  I know that the gas kWH is not 100% accurate, but it gives me a good estimate of my daily, and therefore my annual usage.Each month I enter my billed usage, and this then recifies any gas kWh difference.

Symbio told me they would not touch my gas meter, only swap my electricity meter to a SMET2.  As the gas meter sends its info to the electricity meter, then if the new setup prevented this, then Zog would be unable to read my meter.

ZOG have told me that they have remotely updated my SMET1 meter so it can be read manually.   Therefore, using some logic, Smybio should be able to do the same on their side.  SYmbio said they could, but it would cost them.  Obviously, it is cheaper to install a new meter than to perform this update.

My spreadsheet has been written to use my IHD readings for both gas and elec.  It does a good job of estimating my annual usage and keeping track of my required DD.  This is one reason why I do not want to lose my IHD gas readings. 

It seems to me that the best outcome for me would to find a cheap dual provider - let them sort out either the upgrade or install new SMET 2 meters, and then I would be certain that I could continue keeping track of my usage the way that works for me.

....

But I would certainly be hesitant to allow any supplier to only upgrade 1 meter when you have 2. That does sound like a receipe for disaster.

CORRECTION:

I did admit that I didn't understand much about smart meters, but in an attempt to assist you guys I've now done a bit of research.

It seems that if you have separate energy suppliers, then you will have separate smart meter installations. i.e. the gas supplier will arrange the installation of the gas smart meter & the electricity supplier will arrange the installation of the electricity smart meter.
https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/get-a-smart-meter/the-installation-process

The installation of the electricity smart meter must occur before the installation of the gas smart meter
https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/get-a-smart-meter?step=gassupplierlookup#maincontainer

Having said that, in the cases posted above where it seems you already have SMETS1 meters installed, Ofgem the regulator is now saying:
"Over time, all suppliers will be able to operate first-generation meters as smart meters."
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

So I don't know why Symbio are contacting you trying to arrange the existing electricity smart meter at your property to be replaced?
But then there are lots of things I do not undertand about Symbio.

MWT

greenguppie said:

It seems that if you have separate energy suppliers, then you will have separate smart meter installations. i.e. the gas supplier will arrange the installation of the gas smart meter & the electricity supplier will arrange the installation of the electricity smart meter.

The bit you were missing in your explanations is that the gas meter does not connect to the electricity meter, both meters connect to the comms hub, so they can be changed independently of each other but the electricity meter has to go first because the comms hub takes its power from the electricity meter.

Amoux

Same kind of story here.

After a couple of months, Symbio stopped giving me email reminders for when to submit the meter readings. In absense of the reminder I tried to submit the readings at the end of the month but these readings were not being applied to the bills. They persisted instead with overestimating my usage to the point where I have switched to a new energy company. Some of the estimates were complete barmy! 

They've also switched my tariff plan maybe 4 or 5 times within the space of 1 year. I understand that a variable rate means variable, but it's just annoying having to switch tariffs every other month. 

There is now a 1400kw difference between my actual read and their estimated meter reading. I provided them with a final reading with photographic evidence but they have not accepted this. I calculate that they owe me around £250!

I have submitted a complaint in early, as I have the general sense they will dig their heels in on refunding me properly. The sooner I get the complaint in, the sooner I can take this to the ombudsman. 

danlightbulb

Hi all,

Ive read through some of this thread and ideally would prefer not to go with Symbio as clearly they have issues. However with my tariff coming to an end soon Im faced with nearly 40% increases in my tariffs for electricity and gas. Symbio is the cheapest provider out there (splitting out my current dual fuel tariffs for separates), and all the cheapest providers Ive never heard of in any case.

How bad are they?

It seems the choice is been awful and terrible at the moment unless I want to pay massively over the odds.

greenguppie

danlightbulb said:

Hi all,

Ive read through some of this thread and ideally would prefer not to go with Symbio as clearly they have issues. However with my tariff coming to an end soon Im faced with nearly 40% increases in my tariffs for electricity and gas. Symbio is the cheapest provider out there (splitting out my current dual fuel tariffs for separates), and all the cheapest providers Ive never heard of in any case.

How bad are they?

It seems the choice is been awful and terrible at the moment unless I want to pay massively over the odds.

Energy prices have been rising all this year, and even more so in recent weeks.

If you are coming to the end of a good tariff, one that has been fixed for the last 12M or more, then you unfortunately will see a significant increase in your energy cost.

Start off by including all suppliers. It makes no sense filtering out suppliers you have never heard of, but retaining in your search suppliers you know do not really want because you know they cause will you issues.

If you still find that separate fuel suppliers will be best for you, then only consider the cost of electricity when considering the possibility of switching to Symbio.

You may be finding your total energy cost (gas & electricity) is going to set you back 40% more than you currently pay, but it's only the electricity cost to consider when thinking about Symbio.
Symbio do not supply gas. Gas has increased alot more than 40% if you are currently on a good fixed tariff.

But comparing your energy cost that you are going to pay in the future to what you currently pay is a fruitless exercise. You will not be paying what you currently pay much longer.

If you are still seeing Symbio as the cheapest electricity supplier for you, then look to see how much more you would have to pay to the next cheapest supplier, and the next, and the next, etc.

You may or may not have ever heard of those other suppliers, but that does not mean they are not worth considering. What you do know is that you have already established you would prefer not have Symbio supply you .

Do a search for feedback on any electricity supplier that is now on your list of potential electricity suppliers and you have never heard of to see whether you then still think the oncost (if any) would justify you going with Symbio, a supplier you admit you do not really want.

There are feedback threads on almost every supplier on this forum.

danlightbulb

I only would prefer one with better reliability/customer service in case I need to use it. Odds are I won't, if it all goes smoothly. So price is the main factor.

The prices lately are a complete joke. 40% increase in costs is laughable it really is. Where is the big news stories? Instead all we see is the price cap increases for those who never switch.

Switching has become useless if it can't hold the prices down, that was all it was good for.

shinytop

@danlightbulb, switching is still keeping prices down, it's just that wholesale prices have gone up.  I doubt any of these suppliers are making a lot of money even with a 40% increase.  Even petrol has gone up 15-20% in the last year.   

niktheguru

danlightbulb said:

Hi all,

Ive read through some of this thread and ideally would prefer not to go with Symbio as clearly they have issues. However with my tariff coming to an end soon Im faced with nearly 40% increases in my tariffs for electricity and gas. Symbio is the cheapest provider out there (splitting out my current dual fuel tariffs for separates), and all the cheapest providers Ive never heard of in any case.

How bad are they?

It seems the choice is been awful and terrible at the moment unless I want to pay massively over the odds.

You’ve got 332 pages of info, take from that what you will.

It depends how much cheaper symbio are compared to your next cheapest. If the difference is minimal then maybe worth going with someone else (as long as it’s not neo energy)
if price is your main and only factor then go with symbio.

Personally if symbio was the cheapest for me I would go with them again. But you have to go in there knowing that you have to be on the ball. Proactive, give regular meter readings, take a fixed or seasonal direct debit and take a fixed rate tariff and NOT a variable rate tariff.

There have been a lot of people switch from neon reef to symbio recently with not a huge increase in whinging, probably because they have gone in knowing about symbios usual practices and better informed. As long as you know about these it’s relatively painless.

good luck

CRISPIANNE3

Amoux said:

Same kind of story here.

After a couple of months, Symbio stopped giving me email reminders for when to submit the meter readings. In absense of the reminder I tried to submit the readings at the end of the month but these readings were not being applied to the bills. They persisted instead with overestimating my usage to the point where I have switched to a new energy company. Some of the estimates were complete barmy! 

They've also switched my tariff plan maybe 4 or 5 times within the space of 1 year. I understand that a variable rate means variable, but it's just annoying having to switch tariffs every other month. 

There is now a 1400kw difference between my actual read and their estimated meter reading. I provided them with a final reading with photographic evidence but they have not accepted this. I calculate that they owe me around £250!

I have submitted a complaint in early, as I have the general sense they will dig their heels in on refunding me properly. The sooner I get the complaint in, the sooner I can take this to the ombudsman. 

I give them reading at the end of each month but the wild estimates continue. The less electricity I use the estimates increase even more. For the current month my estimate is 110 percent higher than my actual usage. 

molerat

They have put new T&Cs on the portal.  You cannot do anything until you agree to the new T&Cs.  Unfortunately those new T&Cs don't seem to be formatted properly so that you can actually read them all and undoubtedly there will be some important changes hidden away there without being explicitly pointed towards them.

edit:  Had a read of what I could and the basics seem to be that existing customers will stay on the old billing system and new customers will automatically be put on the new system.  Couldn't read it all though as the right side of the page is cut off as is the bottom !

edit 2: New T&Cs here https://symbioenergy.co.uk/terms-and-conditions