If there isn't a hard-border what would stop Eastern European immigrants entering UK via Ireland??

Enterprise_1701C

phillw wrote: »

They aren't playing games. Labour said in their manifesto what they wanted from brexit and they are trying to achieve that.

It doesn't fit the brexit masterminds idea of triggering brexit to take control of the british population, which so many leave voters seem to be happy about marching into.



We had that up until 1918 and it doesn't work. You just have to accept that with votes comes responsibilities and if you want to believe obvious lies that are aimed at peoples prejudices, then you'll be blamed and become a laughing stock. You might have thought you were doing the right thing, or maybe you were just doing the selfish thing.

Maybe there should be mandatory voting, but others should be able to sue you for consequential damages. I certainly think politicians should be financially accountable for their actions. Rees Mogg and Bojo would be talking a completely different tune about WTO if they were exposing themselves to litigation. They'd probably go silent while they learned how to tell the truth.

Have you any idea how offensive that comment is, although I would imagine that is how you think and you probably wanted to be offensive and then hide under a stone saying it was accidental.

Women are easily as intelligent as men.

Everyone that voted thinks they are right, intelligence has nothing to do with knowledge, it is the speed at which people can work things out, and if you had ever sat a Mensa test you would know that it is a phenomenal number of questions to get through in a very short time.

As for MPs being open to litigation if they do things in a way someone did not approve of, you must surely see the flaw in that? There will always be people that disapprove of the way the country is run, people would be being sued for tightening a law someone wanted circumvent fgs!

phillw

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Have you any idea how offensive that comment is, although I would imagine that is how you think and you probably wanted to be offensive and then hide under a stone saying it was accidental.

Women are easily as intelligent as men.

Where did I say anything about gender? I assume you're feigning offense, the alternative is you're unable to comprehend what I wrote.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Everyone that voted thinks they are right

Right, and clearly half the country disagrees with the other and so half are wrong. You can argue that it's not down to right and wrong, but how people feel. Then you have to accept that democracy won't generate the best result, just the one that people feel better about. But how long will that good feeling last? The irrational fear of being controlled by foreigners will disappear, but will soon be replaced by some other fear. The whole project fear thing was a projection from leave. It was a good plan, very manipulative, I'm sure they feel proud of the result.

I voted remain because I didn't want my decision to be based on fear, but on what was best for the country as a whole. While a common reason I've heard from leavers was they were scared they weren't going to get another chance to leave, if their irrational fears about the EU ever became true.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

As for MPs being open to litigation if they do things in a way someone did not approve of, you must surely see the flaw in that?

I am not talking about whether I approve of it. I was talking about being result based.

Farage has come out post referendum saying that he never once claimed we'd be better off outside the EU, I think Reese Mogg said it will be 50 years before our economy recovers. I don't think the majority of people who voted to leave were aware of that. In effect Farage and Reese Mogg are guilty of misselling and they should be punished for that.

andrewf75

phillw wrote: »

Farage has come out post referendum saying that he never once claimed we'd be better off outside the EU, I think Reese Mogg said it will be 50 years before our economy recovers. I don't think the majority of people who voted to leave were aware of that. In effect Farage and Reese Mogg are guilty of misselling and they should be punished for that.

I have a bit more respect for Rees Mogg than for the others, because I don't think he has ever wilfully misled anyone. He genuinely believes in Brexit in the long run and doesn't just tell people what they want to hear.

His view on Shamima Begum showed that very clearly. Anyone else would have just said what people wanted to hear, but he's refreshingly honest. I disagree with him on most things, but I respect his honesty!

Farage and Johnson etc are the real villains of this, motivated by their own publicity and careers.

Enterprise_1701C

phillw wrote: »

Where did I say anything about gender? I assume you're feigning offense, the alternative is you're unable to comprehend what I wrote.

As you well know 1918 is when women got the vote. With your general attitude that is almost certainly what you were referring to, unless it was the lowering of the voting age for men? In which case you would be admitting that men of a certain age have their brains somewhere other than their heads.

Arklight

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Have you any idea how offensive that comment is, although I would imagine that is how you think and you probably wanted to be offensive and then hide under a stone saying it was accidental.

Women are easily as intelligent as men.

Everyone that voted thinks they are right, intelligence has nothing to do with knowledge, it is the speed at which people can work things out, and if you had ever sat a Mensa test you would know that it is a phenomenal number of questions to get through in a very short time.

As for MPs being open to litigation if they do things in a way someone did not approve of, you must surely see the flaw in that? There will always be people that disapprove of the way the country is run, people would be being sued for tightening a law someone wanted circumvent fgs!

They really don't. A mature attitude towards taking a decision is that you make the best of the information you have at the time balanced against what you believe the risk of being wrong to be. At least some Brexit voters fall into this category.

It is a characteristic of those who are politically right wing that they tend to see the world in very black and white ways, and are also emotionally fearful of threat. As can be seen by the OP's nonsense about 55% of London, one of the most global cities in the world, daring to not be English.

It's why it's impossible to debate with you lot. You are all convinced you are right and any argument to the contrary you just perceive as threatening, thereby reinforcing your views that you are right.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201612/fear-and-anxiety-drive-conservatives-political-attitudes

Peer-reviewed research shows that conservatives are more sensitive to threat. While this threat-bias can distort reality, fuel irrational fears, and make one more vulnerable to fear-mongering politicians, it could also promote hypervigilance, perhaps making one better prepared to handle an immediate threat.

Of course sometimes conservatives' fears are grounded. Like if the tribe is asleep in a cave and there might be a sabre tooth tiger nearby. It's less obvious how this modality of thought is of use in steering the UK through finely nuanced geo-politics.

Enterprise_1701C

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Rich2808

Takedap wrote: »

As George Carlin used to say "Think about how stupid the average person is. Then realise that half of them are stupider than that"


Mind you, he also said "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

Which half are you in?

buglawton

phillw wrote: »

...Right, and clearly half the country disagrees with the other and so half are wrong. You can argue that it's not down to right and wrong, but how people feel. Then you have to accept that democracy won't generate the best result, just the one that people feel better about. But how long will that good feeling last? The irrational fear of being controlled by foreigners will disappear, but will soon be replaced by some other fear. The whole project fear thing was a projection from leave. It was a good plan, very manipulative, I'm sure they feel proud of the result.

I voted remain because I didn't want my decision to be based on fear, but on what was best for the country as a whole. While a common reason I've heard from leavers was they were scared they weren't going to get another chance to leave, if their irrational fears about the EU ever became true...

Half disagrees with the other half...
Absolutely not. There's a full spectrum of opinion in the Brexit vote, there were just 2 choices on the ballot paper.
On example I know is someone who like me was around the middle (mainly wanting the EU to change it's ways and fast), switched to Remain at the last moment and now having seen the EU leadership's behaviour in negotiations, is leaning back towards Leave again.

Takedap

Rich2808 wrote: »

Which half are you in?

I'm in the half that believes that complex questions don't have binary answers.



And you?

andrewf75

buglawton wrote: »

Half disagrees with the other half...
Absolutely not. There's a full spectrum of opinion in the Brexit vote, there were just 2 choices on the ballot paper.
On example I know is someone who like me was around the middle (mainly wanting the EU to change it's ways and fast), switched to Remain at the last moment and now having seen the EU leadership's behaviour in negotiations, is leaning back towards Leave again.

A very good point. As the increasingly polarised debate has gone on, I find myself increasingly feeling I have more in common with moderates on the other side than the extremes on my side. Its probably partly because as time has gone by the extreme remainers have become more vocal, whereas with leavers, the extreme ones have largely piped down.

I can't comprehend the last part though, I don't really see how people can fault the EU's approach to negotiations. I can't see how they could have done anything different.