Congestion Charge 24hr window - please help break this down for me!

Dean000000

George_Michael wrote: »

There's an even more important figure to take into account when looking at the 5% of users who didn't pay on time:

Correction - Extract from report posted

5.4.7. All road users, irrespective of age, income or mobility requirement, should obey the relevant traffic regulations when driving in the CCZ or on the TLRN. At present c.97% of road users comply with these regulations and so avoid being issued with a PCN

George_Michael wrote: »

So of all the penalties for non payment issued in 2016, 64% of them were issued to repeat offenders.

Doesn’t this mean that therefore only 36% of the 3% that didn’t pay were the ones ‘caught’ out?

Isn’t that like roughly 99% of people being able to understand the simplest of instructions?

I agree steedoc - that’s far too low and I actually now believe you have a point....

Got to go now though, lunch at Nando’s today.... see you all later

Aylesbury_Duck

I’m disappointed. Steve said the current payment rules wouldn’t be in place for much longer but I’ve just checked and they still are. I’m heading into central London on Friday and was hoping to use the new payment flexibility he promised. It looks like I’ll have to try and track down some internet on Saturday.

Scrapit

steedoc wrote: »

Because that gives you time to get home, turn on the computer and tap in your credit card? duh

I go home every day, not 1 in 3 days. Duh.
Also can we expand how living near the congestion zone makes you better at googling it?

Nearly_Old

steedoc wrote: »

Were first time users who live outside the capital consulted? It doesn't matter, all you are saying is that, it's not arbitrary, it's just, the way it is. Again, devoid of any reasoning.

It is not arbritary as the dictionary definition of arbitrary is:


1. based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system."an arbitrary decision"

synonyms: capricious, whimsical, random, chance, erratic, unpredictable, inconsistent, wild, hit-or-miss, haphazard, casual;


The system was based on a rational choice using experience from existing systems, and was also then subjected to statutory and public consultation before the legal orders were made. Public consultation is open to all members of the public it is up to each individual to decide whether they want to make a representation, this is why protesters can make objections to a new highway even if they live hundreds of miles away. It was definitely not a random choice or personal whim or inconsistent, etc. This is the reason why it is not an arbritrary requirement.

[Deleted User]

Have we started a gofundme page yet?

OP give it up and pay the fine,you made a mistake.

AdrianC

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

I’m heading into central London on Friday and was hoping to use the new payment flexibility he promised. It looks like I’ll have to try and track down some internet on Saturday.

It's OK, it's the end of the next charging day, so you've got until the end of Monday.

Barny1979

steedoc wrote: »

well everyone, I think I am ready to sum up. I want to thank you all for input. I haven't actually paid yet, I was hoping one of you would pay it for me seeing as you all love the congestion charge so much, that's why I posted the scan. But nevermind! I am going to pay at the reduced rate because I don't want a bill for £240 hanging over me. But I will also be writing to the complaints department in Darlington and then potentially to the tribunal.

This is what we have learned...

i) people have immense trouble understanding my basic objection to my penalty, evidenced by the large quantity of chaff I have had to dodge throughout the discussion.

To clarify:
-I do not object to paying a congestion charge
-The CZ signage is visible and clearly shows when you are entering the zone
-I do not object to paying the charge via the internet, using a PC or smartphone
-I do not object to making the payment in a timely manner, either on the day of entering the zone or shortly after.
-There is no equivalence between using a zone where there is an understanding that one will pay 'after the fact', and charges to do with parking or dining in Carlucio's

(50% of this thread has been answers to questions I didn't ask, relating to the five points above)

ii) The substantive part of my complaint is that there is no good reason for TfL to impose a short time window to pay the congestion charge other than to catch out first-time users (especially from the provinces) and reap more revenues from PCNs.

The only poster who has come close to addressing the issue is Adrian, who hypothesized that the window has to set this tight as otherwise people would forget. This is the single only piece of logic generated back to me throughout the discussion, so thanks Adrian. The hypothesis is that people might forget to pay, therefore we have to impose a tight window of 24hrs.

What can I say, this is so senseless and brainless I could write a volume of philosophy about why this doesn't constitute an answer. But nevertheless it is an attempt to deal with the issue, and again I thank Adrian!

I have demonstrated that for first-time users of the system, seeing as there is no logical reason to assume a tight time window (30hrs), and because the payment window is not publicised on the signs or on the congestion charge website landing page, this PCN is not so much a penalty charge, but a BLANKET charge for hundreds and thousands of motorists every year, who are acting reasonably.

Further, because no good reason for the short payment window has been provided, one has to assume that TfL is acting in bad faith, imposing a tight window for the sole purpose of generating revenue from PCNs.

Actually, there was one other attempt at answering my question, and that was that 'they have to set a limit somewhere', as if they've just arbitrarily chosen 30 hours. Ahhhh.

Thanks and see you out there

If you pay, you won't be able to take it to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.

steedoc

George_Michael wrote: »

Not quite.
In your view, 48hrs is reasonable. In the view of just about every other poster on here, the time already allowed is reasonable or are you so arrogant that you honestly think that your opinion is the only reasonable one? (and that's a rhetorical question as I think all of the reasonable people using this forum already know the answer).

The reason people think it's reasonable is that they use the service regularly, and they know how to work it. But without any prior knowledge there is nothing that would leave one to assume a payment window of 30 hrs.

People who've grown up in North Korea think their society is all perfectly reasonable and just too...

steedoc

Barny1979 wrote: »

If you pay, you won't be able to take it to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.

oh dear! that's a problem

steedoc

treboeth wrote: »

Have we started a gofundme page yet?

OP give it up and pay the fine,you made a mistake.

Are people living under fascist regimes making 'a mistake'? Just because the authorities have an iron grip over my eighty pounds doesn't mean they are right or correct.