Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Herzlos

Takedap wrote: »

Unfortunately unless you want to see Tommy Robinson & his ilk in the HoC, the "will of the people" has to be allowed.


If it's going to fail, it must be seen to fail.


I can seriously see bloodshed if we're not careful.

I don't think we'll see bloodshed. There will be a lot of angry protesting if we don't leave, and a lot of angry protesting if we do leave and things get worse.


I otherwise agree though - the only outcome now that will avoid ongoing struggle is to leave, decide if it succeeds or fails and then get on with life.

kabayiri

Takedap wrote: »

Unfortunately unless you want to see Tommy Robinson & his ilk in the HoC, the "will of the people" has to be allowed.

...

They have just as much right to throw their hat in the ring as anybody else.

It would obviously be a front person with a friendly face, but there is serious money behind the scenes.

The liberal types have had their chance to deliver, both here and in the EU. I can easily see a swing to the right in both parliaments.

Takedap

Herzlos wrote: »

I don't think we'll see bloodshed. There will be a lot of angry protesting if we don't leave, and a lot of angry protesting if we do leave and things get worse.

I hope you're right. However from some of the stuff I'm seeing & hearing, Brexit has split families & communities in a way that makes the Miner's strike look like a WI meeting.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

I don't think we'll see bloodshed. There will be a lot of angry protesting if we don't leave, and a lot of angry protesting if we do leave and things get worse.

...

Angry protests get nowhere. But clever protesting does.

We have seen how easy it is to spook a Tory government into a referendum.

Malthusian

movilogo wrote: »

However, the new 2 parties unlikely to be Labour and Conservative. It would be Leave and Remain parties.

If true we're going to live in a one-party state, as the last time we had a general election, Leave won 82% of the vote, Remain 9%, and "Leave the UK" 3%.

That's %s of the popular vote by the way, not MPs.

Not necessarily a bad thing, one-party democracy worked OK for Japan for a long time.

mayonnaise

movilogo wrote: »

However, the new 2 parties unlikely to be Labour and Conservative. It would be Leave and Remain parties.

Sounds good.

56% for the Remain party, and the other 44% split between:

- hard left Labour
- Tories
- Farage Brexit Party.
- UKIP
- SDP
- English Democrats
- etc.

Herzlos

Takedap wrote: »

I hope you're right. However from some of the stuff I'm seeing & hearing, Brexit has split families & communities in a way that makes the Miner's strike look like a WI meeting.

Oh I have no doubt there are people who'll never talk to some friends/family members again over it, and a lot of rage and the occasional fist fight, but I'm not expecting we'll see any actual rioting.


We'll probably see it worst if there are any food/medicine shortages. Think US Black Friday but staying alive.

andrewf75

adindas wrote: »

I do not remember anyone is advocating a no deal will make UK be better off in the short run. But what about the long term benefit ?? Also keep in mind in a no deal brexit, it will not just have impact on UK but also EU. The remoaners always portray the negative impact on the UK but never mention about the impact on the EU

I would like to see the no deal take place,. In the long term , more than a decade (say) and see what happen to Britain ??

The same thing with joining the Euro along time ago, who is laughing now ??

No deal is better than bad deal. Doing otherwise mean lie ....

Everyone is very clear that no deal is bad for the EU as well. You make it sound as if bad for the EU means good for us!

Everyone loses from no deal. Its ridiculous for anyone to argue for it, regardless of what relationship you want. Even if you want no ties with the EU whatsoever, you should still want a deal to get there!

This idea that no deal is a viable option should never have been floated, because now people like you – and I imagine there are a few million – think it’s actually a serious option

kabayiri

andrewf75 wrote: »

...
This idea that no deal is a viable option should never have been floated, because now people like you – and I imagine there are a few million – think it’s actually a serious option

That few million includes the architect of A50 !

It's this process we are following.

How do I put this for the hard of thinking. If you really really want to avoid a default exit, DO NOT trigger A50 in the first place.

Hey, the vast majority voted to go ahead with A50 though. It's a bit stupid to be whingeing now.

(...or maybe voting for stuff they don't believe in is second nature now)

adindas

andrewf75 wrote: »

Everyone is very clear that no deal is bad for the EU as well. You make it sound as if bad for the EU means good for us!

Everyone loses from no deal. Its ridiculous for anyone to argue for it, regardless of what relationship you want. Even if you want no ties with the EU whatsoever, you should still want a deal to get there!

This idea that no deal is a viable option should never have been floated, because now people like you – and I imagine there are a few million – think it’s actually a serious option

From the beginning UK have a lot of bargaining power: e.g. money, People (EU citizen in the UK as bargaining chips), defence and security, intelligent.

TM has given them up all. The case of two brexit negotiators quit told a lot of stories.

If you remove the threat of a no deal brexit what you have left to negotiate ? Do the people in the UK wanted to be kept humiliated by the EU negotiators ??

No deal is better than bad deal that is what TM has preached. Because most people have seen the current deal is a bad, the UK should leave the EU without a deal. What Is difficult to understand here.

In more than a decade you will witness who will be laughing. The same thing same thing happen with the case of joining the EURO more than a decade ago. who is laughing now.

Let EU rotten with their own problem in Greece, Italy, Spain. The problem with toxic derivative with Deutsche bank.