Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

cogito

smipsy wrote: »

Boris was always going to be the PM.

He's like a movie villain whom you follow from the beginning and you know the climax will be with him getting what he wants.

I'm just undecided on whether it's a thriller, comedy or a horror movie![/QUOTE

Boris as PM is the direct consequence of Cameron and May not doing what they promised to do.

Zero_Gravitas

smipsy wrote: »

I'm just undecided on whether it's a thriller, comedy or a horror movie!

It's actually a salutory warning to the future about what happens when a gullible population allows its trust to be placed in liars.

movilogo

many Leavers do seem a bit racist,

This type of statements really fuels the fire. Remainers tried very hard to stereotype Leavers as thick, racist, uneducated old gits, low wage labourers etc.

Are you sure remainers are not racist because they want to treat anyone from outside EU in less privileged mannner?

Tromking

melanzana wrote: »

So Brexit is really a Wales/England issue now. That is obvious.

Honestly what has this country achieved at all from all this. Nothing except a break up of the Union, but that's ok, it's worth it.

My word. I cannot believe this is happening.

You shouldn’t be surprised.
When the English are specifically selected as the people to pay for the bail out of the banks and thus endure the ongoing Tory/libdem austerity era, it’s not surprising to me that voting habits are turning toward the nihilistic.
With metropolitan Labour now choosing to abandon the white working class, it’s going to get worse too.

SouthLondonUser

BikingBud wrote: »

You want us to comment upon a single comment, within a single paper, within a file of docs gathered together by the civil servants of the FCO that is merely opinion

But Brexiters didn't present that document as 'opinion' - they presented it a shocking proof that the UK would have given up sovereignty etc etc etc. They almost presented it as proof of some shocking cover up. Now, when I dare point out that the same document also contains comments which are very much those of the Remainers, suddenly the same document is just 'opinions'. Hmmm...

BikingBud wrote: »

Nor is the opinion that leaving without a deal will lead to a knife edge crash to doom and despondency a fact, merely just another opinion.

Easiest deal in history, we'll hold all the cards, etc etc.
However, now Boris and Hunt are saying that no-deal will be disruptive, will cost jobs, etc. So which is it? Are Boris and Hunt part of Project Fear? Or is Project Fear, in fact, Project Harsh-Truth-you-don't-want-to-face?

BikingBud wrote: »

Why do you assume we will roll over and get our bellies tickled rather than being robust in our post brexit activities?

Because the bargaining power of a country like the UK is minuscule vs that of the US or China. yes, we are the 5th or 7th economy in the world, depending on the estimate, but that's a moot point because the US, China and the EU dwarf our economy. We may be the 5th but we are still tiny compared to those 3 blocks.

Can you present a single case of a country about our size who has obtained better terms than one of these 3 giant blocks when negotiating trade deals?

BikingBud wrote: »

More than 50% of the chicken that is exported comes from Europe, US roughly 8%.

And you don't think this could change if, say, we leave with no deal, and we accept American chicken? The looser standards in the US make its chicken cheaper; tariffs would make European chicken even more expensive. Do I need to finish the sentence?

BikingBud wrote: »

Notwithstanding these points, what is wholly disconcerting is your perpetual assumption that all people who voted to leave are racists. Is that based upon the leavers you know and their blatant racist tendencies or just you opinion based upon your own spite and deep seated prejudices?

I never said that ALL Leave voters are racists. Please don’t put (false) words in my mouth.
No, not all Leave voters are racists. BUT racists voted disproportionately more for Brexit than for Remain.

It is undeniable that there are Leave voters who voted to leave because they don’t want any more immigration; whether immigration has ever really been a threat to them is debatable – see the % of leavers in places like Cornwall, where ca. 95% of the population is made up by white, Christian Brits. Just read the news, look up interviews online, etc. Plenty of such examples. Now, I cannot quantify that, I cannot say: 10% or 20% or 80% of Leave voters voted to leave because they are racists, but it is undeniable that this exists. By contrast, how many people have ever said: “I voted to remain but I don’t want any more Africans/Asians/Polish/Spanish etc coming here”?

It is also undeniable that the Brexit vote has triggered phenomena of racisms that we didn’t witness before; again, just look at the news.

There are excesses on both sides; e.g. you will remember I harshly criticised those protesters who shouted “your dad is a horrible person” to Jacob Rees Mogg’s children. BUT I also think the excesses of Brexiters have been worse, e.g. :

• how many pro-Brexit politicians have been murdered?
• how many prominent Remainers have publicly offered money to whoever would have killed a prominent Leaver? Remember, a viscount was jailed for offering £5k to whoever would have killed Gina Miller. There will always be idiots on each side, but, when a member of the elite behaves so appallingly, it means that something has gone hideously wrong in this country
• Farage may receive a milkshake on his suit (something I don’t condone in the slightest, by the way); Gina Miller was told by the police it was NOT SAFE for her to walk around freely

SouthLondonUser

Tromking wrote: »

You shouldn’t be surprised.
When the English are specifically selected as the people to pay for the bail out of the banks

What do you mean? Was there a specific tax, from which the Scottish were exempt, to bail out the banks?

SouthLondonUser

PS We know a black British family who used to want to move to the suburbs, but have decided to stay in London, because, after the Brexit vote and the rise of the Brexit party, they don't want to bring up their kids in a place where they might be the only black and where they may be more likely to experience racism.

Brexiters will probably dismiss this as unrepresentative, but, honestly, can you blame that family?
Also note you don't need everyone in a community for this concern to be perfectly valid; i.e. this doesn't mean that every single Brexiter and every single person outside the M25 is a racist who would make their kids' life a misery - it simply means that Brexit has shown that the chances of this happening are greater outside of London.

Also: Jonathan Pie on Hunt vs Johnson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-CIggoU4VM

movilogo

By contrast, how many people have ever said: “I voted to remain but I don’t want any more Africans/Asians/Polish/Spanish etc coming here”?

By voting Remain, those people effectively said I want Polish/Spanish (i.e. white people) coming but don't want Asian/African (i.e. brown/black/yellow people) to have same privilege.

At least Leavers want same rule for everyone.

Who is more racist here?

SouthLondonUser

So that makes Remainers racist! Wow, what a thought process!

BikingBud

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

PS We know a black British family who used to want to move to the suburbs, but have decided to stay in London, because, after the Brexit vote and the rise of the Brexit party, they don't want to bring up their kids in a place where they might be the only black and where they may be more likely to experience racism.

Brexiters will probably dismiss this as unrepresentative, but, honestly, can you blame that family?
Also note you don't need everyone in a community for this concern to be perfectly valid; i.e. this doesn't mean that every single Brexiter and every single person outside the M25 is a racist who would make their kids' life a misery - it simply means that Brexit has shown that the chances of this happening are greater outside of London.

Also: Jonathan Pie on Hunt vs Johnson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-CIggoU4VM

What a load of old tosh.:rotfl: Don't go outside the M25 there's bad people out there.:rotfl::rotfl: They will eat your babies:eek::eek:

Have you ever been to West Yorkshire or Bolton/Blackburn or Luton or Bristol or the West Midlands or Wisbech. All of these areas have a high mix of differing races and people from differing backgrounds. London does not have the only cosmopolitan population in the UK:(

Your perspective on reality is massively skewed, something that is evident in you other posts where you openly decry any value in living outside London and you feel there are only neanderthals up north.

Where have you lived in the world to get such a broad and balanced outlook?