Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-vote-d-day-anniversary-veterans-ww2-eu-europe-a8946046.html
On the 75th anniversary of D-Day, more than 120 military veterans have signed a letter warning that peace and friendship in Europe is threatened by Brexit.
The 122 veterans, whose service spans the period from the Second World War to modern-day conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, said that the peace which has prevailed in Europe since 1945 “should not be taken for granted”.
And they challenged the invocation of wartime patriotism by the Leave camp, pointing out that it was Sir Winston Churchill who called for the creation of a “European family” to prevent another descent into bloodshed.

Churchill’s words helped inspire the creation of the Common Market, which evolved into the European Union with “one main purpose - to create lasting peace by entwining our economies and societies together on a continent once ravaged by war,” they said.
“Nato does not keep the peace in Europe – it keeps peace for Europe. It is the EU that keeps peace in Europe, because when you trade, you do not fight.

So that would be 122 out of 2.5 million veterans (2016 figures) well that’s pretty conclusive.

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

And the award for the most astonishing deficit in knowledge about his own country's history goes to...

The knowledge deficit is frightening and goes a long way to explaining brexit I suppose. I'm also always struck by the fact that people who have actually experienced war tend to be advocates for close political co-operation as a means of avoiding future strife.

Moby

Honey_Badger wrote: »

So that would be 122 out of 2.5 million veterans (2016 figures) well that’s pretty conclusive.

Sarcastic comments aside....you just have to know your history....the wider point being made was that the energy and drive to create something new in Europe came out of the destruction caused by competing European nation states going back hundreds of years. People who say the EU is not significant to that are in denial!

fewgroats

Honey_Badger wrote: »

So that would be 122 out of 2.5 million veterans (2016 figures) well that’s pretty conclusive.

How long do you think it would take to get 2.5 million veterans to sign a letter?

Besides which, these are WWII veterans, not just any ex-soldier.

Honey_Badger

fewgroats wrote: »

How long do you think it would take to get 2.5 million veterans to sign a letter?

Besides which, these are WWII veterans, not just any ex-soldier.

No, if you’d read Moby’s post it says:

The 122 veterans, whose service spans the period from the Second World War to modern-day conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan,

So not just WWII veterans.

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

Sarcastic comments aside....you just have to know your history....the wider point being made was that the energy and drive to create something new in Europe came out of the destruction caused by competing European nation states going back hundreds of years. People who say the EU is not significant to that are in denial!

You say sarcastic I’d say factually correct.

I think it’s impossible to prove that the EU is solely responsible for peace in Europe. A case could be be made for a number of other factors equally possible as reasons for the longest peace that western and Northern Europe has known.

I do know my history quite well, it’s just that my conclusions do not fit your narrative.

Honey_Badger

mayonnaise wrote: »

You go and tell Mr Chardin that your conclusions do not fit his narrative.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-would-be-a-crying-shame-says-d-day-veteran-knpt6s22b

How about you tell Major General Julian Thompson

Thompson joined the Royal Marines in 1952.[2] Between 1954 and 1969, he served in 40, 42, 43, 45 Commandos Royal Marines.[1] During the 1960s he was deployed to Borneo for the Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation. He was appointed commanding officer of 40 Commando in 1975 and commander of 3 Commando Brigade in 1981 and, in that role, was British land commander on the Falkland Islands during the first phase of the conflict ashore.

He’s a member of Veterans for Britain whose stated aims are.

Veterans for Britain was formed in March 2016 in order to put forward the Defence and Security arguments for the UK to vote to leave the European Union in the 2016 Referendum, and to provide a voice for the UK’s military veterans and serving soldiers in the Leave campaign.

http://veteransforbritain.uk

Thrugelmir

Honey_Badger wrote: »

I think it’s impossible to prove that the EU is solely responsible for peace in Europe. .

Co-operation between countries on a number of fronts was no doubt driven by the threat from the then Eastern Bloc.

Honey_Badger

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Co-operation between countries on a number of fronts was no doubt driven by the threat from the then Eastern Bloc.

I totally agree, the perceived threat from the Warsaw Pact was definitely a factor.

SpiderLegs

The only thing you need to know is that my dad is definitely harder than your dad.
FACT.