Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

lisyloo

well hopefully we can all 100% believe and agree on one thing and thats - "America first"

Enterprise_1701C

Moby wrote: »

Does that boost your confidence in him then?

I have never had confidence in him, it was not him that was invited over, it was the office of POTUS that was invited.

StevieJ wrote: »

And you believe that?

I do believe it, whichever part you are referring to.

I do not think for one minute that any government would allow the NHS to be included in any trade deal. Unless of course Corbyn comes to power, then anything would be on the table if momentum thought it would provide more money for the unions.

fewgroats

It would be doubtful that a left wing politician would sell the NHS.

The number of Tories that think Corbyn won't come to power when there will almost certainly be an election before October. Could be the Lib Dems of course, but...

lisyloo

fewgroats wrote: »

It would be doubtful that a left wing politician would sell the NHS.

The number of Tories that think Corbyn won't come to power when there will almost certainly be an election before October. Could be the Lib Dems of course, but...

What sequence of events do you foresee resulting in an election?
Why would the Tories call one if they know they’ll lose?

movilogo

Tories won't call an election now as they know they'd lose.

They will pursue No Deal Brexit and if that materializes they will call one soon after - aiming to take advantage of pleased leave voters.

If they cancel Brexit, next GE will see Brexit party in power who will pursue No Deal Brexit.

So, now there is no escape from No Deal Brexit.

Arklight

I'm wondering what part of taking back control relates to signing trade deals to put British farmers out of work via the appalling suffering of American live stock and the horrifying corner cutting of the American food industry?

Or we could just make our standards even lower than theirs.

Like them, we will barely be able to export anything to Europe then. But apparently that doesn't matter.

ben501

Arklight wrote: »

I'm wondering what part of taking back control relates to signing trade deals to put British farmers out of work via the appalling suffering of American live stock and the horrifying corner cutting of the American food industry?

How do you foresee this happening?

If I were to check the meat in my freezer I think most beef is Irish. Lamb is New Zealand. Pork is Danish. There's probably some English stuff there too, but the majority will be foreign. Not a lot of help to UK farmers.

If meat from the U.S. replaces some of the other cheap stuff that's not going to affect UK farmers much. Besides, unless consumers choose to buy it, they won't put anyone out of work.

lisyloo

Besides, unless consumers choose to buy it

way too simplistic


consumers may buy it
in restaurant
at a stall/van
at a takeaway
in processed meat e.g. burgers
in processed foods e.g. pie, sausages, ready meal


The only scenario out of those that I can think of where people would actually know where their meat is from is at a decent restaurant e.g. argentinian steak.
In all the others we don't know where it's from.


So if mum goes to Iceland to buy savory party snacks then shen she doesn't know where the meat is from.

ben501

lisyloo wrote: »

way too simplistic

consumers may buy it
in restaurant
at a stall/van
at a takeaway
in processed meat e.g. burgers
in processed foods e.g. pie, sausages, ready meal

The only scenario out of those that I can think of where people would actually know where their meat is from is at a decent restaurant

In all the others we don't know where it's from.

So if mum goes to Iceland to buy savory party snacks then shen she doesn't know where the meat is from.

How about an alternative simplistic suggestion then?

Consumers could choose NOT to buy it unless the origin is identified. I've had a quick look on a few frozen items. Some specify the origin, some don't (UK sausages, Thai Chicken pieces). Presumably some manufactures choose to do it already, albeit on a voluntary basis. No reason why it couldn't be made into a requirement.
Likewise with restaurants & other sellers of prepared to order food, they would then know the origin of their food and could publish it for customers. In all likelihood many would not care anyway. Until I checked the freezer I had no idea my chicken pieces are from Thailand.

My query is with the 'putting British farmers out of work' comment. A lot of meat is already sourced from abroad. I've no idea if US standard are better or worse than those we already import from. A quick Google for 'chicken from Thailand' gave examples from both sides. One said standards were better than ours, another said they're awful.
I'm sure people who care about sourcing local meat will continue to do so. I just think trying to predict the future of the UK meat industry is nothing more than scaremongering. Who knows, maybe sales of UK produced meat will increase.

Arklight

ben501 wrote: »

How do you foresee this happening?

If I were to check the meat in my freezer I think most beef is Irish. Lamb is New Zealand. Pork is Danish. There's probably some English stuff there too, but the majority will be foreign. Not a lot of help to UK farmers.

If meat from the U.S. replaces some of the other cheap stuff that's not going to affect UK farmers much. Besides, unless consumers choose to buy it, they won't put anyone out of work.

Because people who buy intensively farmed chicken don't have freezers full of New Zealand lamb.

If you are buying intensively farmed chicken now you'll do so on price. As America has virtually no standards for animal welfare, and saturates their animals with growth hormone and antibiotics to increase yield, their intensively farmed meat is cheap so that's what many people will buy.

As stated by another poster, that's what businesses will switch to. The only thing British farmers could do to compete is campaign to lower their standards even more.