Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

cogito

Takedap wrote: »

I don't know. I can find a link to a 2016 Times article that attributes the quote to de Gaulle but can't find any verification from any other source.


Could you provide one please?

I'm glad we've cleared that up. It’s just another of those things that the press made up. A bit like the ones that have been made up about comments supposedly made by remainers like those who post on this thread.

cogito

Arklight wrote: »

Corbyn doesn't pretend to think things he doesn't think, never has, never will. If you want a Labour leader who will say things he doesn't believe in order to make people he doesn't care about vote for him, then you'll need to find a Blairite.

Oh yes he does. Challenge him on his liaisons with terrorists, for example, and it's like Clinton protesting that he didn’t inhale.

Takedap

cogito wrote: »

You mean de Gaulle didn’t refer to the rest of Europe being just trimmings when meeting Konrad Adenauer at the Elysee Palace in 1963? Is that the one?

Takedap wrote: »

I don't know. I can find a link to a 2016 Times article that attributes the quote to de Gaulle but can't find any verification from any other source.


Could you provide one please?

cogito wrote: »

I'm glad we've cleared that up. It’s just another of those things that the press made up. A bit like the ones that have been made up about comments supposedly made by remainers like those who post on this thread.

Am I right to assume that's a "No" then?

Takedap

Tromking wrote: »

I think you already accounted for the Daily Mail readers when you used the word “thick”. That said, so wrapped up in your nasty invective are you, you’ve obviously missed the Daily Mail’s change of approach on Brexit. Perhaps it’s you that inhabits a bubble and you need to move away from the hackneyed ‘Daily Mail reader’ trope so beloved of the angry, unthinking remain voter desperate to lash out.
Although you paint a damning picture of your fellow countrymen and women, it does display a staggering amount of arrogance on your part to feel you have the right to be so condemnatory of your fellow citizens.
Arrogance does however seem to be a remain voter character trait, so perhaps I shouldn’t be so surprised.

It's very interesting that you choose to accuse me of "paint(ing) a damning picture of your fellow countrymen and women" and being "so condemnatory of your fellow citizens" , labelling it as arrogance while seemingly forgetting what you posted earlier.


Lets remind you eh?

Tromking wrote: »

My vote to leave was partly driven by personal grievance. As an English taxpayer and the victim of an unfair funding settlement from the UK Treasury in comparison to Scotland, I voted Leave to inflict Brexit on the populace of a pro-EU Scotland and send a message to U.K. politicians who seemingly couldn’t give a stuff about austerity blighted England.

So it seems that despite being in a Union since 1707, you don't regard Scotland as being an equal part of this country.


Do you have similar reservations about Wales & Northern Ireland?


Does the integrity of the UK mean so little to you?


Are you really the personification of the archetypal Little Englander that the above quote shows you to be?


It's either that or you're just trolling.


Which is it?

Enterprise_1701C

Scotland do not consider themselves an equal part of the union.

If it was the case they wouldn't expect to be handed so much extra money per head than England.

AND they would not expect the wishes of a country of 5 million people to be more important than the wishes of a country of 55 million people.

Sturgeon has spent a long time turning England against her, probably intentionally. She can hardly complain if it has actually worked.

And, for the record, I would like to maintain the integrity of the UK, but quite frankly I would prefer it not to be with Sturgeon constantly moaning about whatever parliament we elect, expecting to vote on all our laws, actually having the cheek to vote against extending opening hours on Sunday in the UK because she didn't want shopkeepers on her border to lose a little trade to the English side, moaning we don't let her people vote on English only laws, and all the time running her own parliament that we don't get to vote in.

She wants to have her cake and eat it, and she wants us in England to supply it.

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

He's always said he's 6/10 on Europe.

He's being 6/10 on Europe.

Corbyn doesn't pretend to think things he doesn't think, never has, never will. If you want a Labour leader who will say things he doesn't believe in order to make people he doesn't care about vote for him, then you'll need to find a Blairite.

Corbyn says he believes in the democracy of the Party and that the Party membership decides policy. He'll therefore understand that the will of the membership is for a 'Peoples Vote'. Until he accepts what the vast majority of the membership want we'll haemorrhage support.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/16/labour-brexit-remain-voters-european-elections

Moby

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Scotland do not consider themselves an equal part of the union.

If it was the case they wouldn't expect to be handed so much extra money per head than England.

AND they would not expect the wishes of a country of 5 million people to be more important than the wishes of a country of 55 million people.

Sturgeon has spent a long time turning England against her, probably intentionally. She can hardly complain if it has actually worked.

And, for the record, I would like to maintain the integrity of the UK, but quite frankly I would prefer it not to be with Sturgeon constantly moaning about whatever parliament we elect, expecting to vote on all our laws, actually having the cheek to vote against extending opening hours on Sunday in the UK because she didn't want shopkeepers on her border to lose a little trade to the English side, moaning we don't let her people vote on English only laws, and all the time running her own parliament that we don't get to vote in.

She wants to have her cake and eat it, and she wants us in England to supply it.

Brexit makes the dissolution of the union more likely. The SNP are using the brexit vote as proof of a 'material change' to justify their campaign for another referendum. Remaining in the EU would reduce the likelihood of the break-up of the UK. You can see the same forces at work in Wales now. Plaid are running on a ticket of Wales being the most deprived area in the UK and are using Ireland as an example of how a small country can benefit from being in the EU.

LHW99

Quote:
Originally Posted by cogito
You mean de Gaulle didn’t refer to the rest of Europe being just trimmings when meeting Konrad Adenauer at the Elysee Palace in 1963? Is that the one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takedap
I don't know. I can find a link to a 2016 Times article that attributes the quote to de Gaulle but can't find any verification from any other source.


Could you provide one please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cogito
I'm glad we've cleared that up. It’s just another of those things that the press made up. A bit like the ones that have been made up about comments supposedly made by remainers like those who post on this thread.


Am I right to assume that's a "No" then?

This, if said, would have been well before the internet.
Apart from the Times article, it is quoted in several books, eg:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gdbwDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA168&lpg=PA168&dq=de+Gaulle+Adenauer+Europe+trimmings&source=bl&ots=6MHW_n-tRD&sig=ACfU3U1W8w9HZu1SvxopIPkZeDMNqvGA8A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB4_iOsafiAhVkpHEKHUm6B84Q6AEIPjAN#v=onepage&q=de%20Gaulle%20Adenauer%20Europe%20trimmings&f=false
which is published by macMillan Higher Education, or if you prefer
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M8PpYS1fVq0C&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=de+Gaulle+Adenauer+Europe+trimmings&source=bl&ots=vf3BqSEVGz&sig=ACfU3U3Mn5UVQJRQJMjg1gNKGk1BYnoIwQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB4_iOsafiAhVkpHEKHUm6B84Q6AEILzAJ#v=onepage&q=de%20Gaulle%20Adenauer%20Europe%20trimmings&f=false
from 2004, by one of Blair's advisers

Tromking

Takedap wrote: »

It's very interesting that you choose to accuse me of "paint(ing) a damning picture of your fellow countrymen and women" and being "so condemnatory of your fellow citizens" , labelling it as arrogance while seemingly forgetting what you posted earlier.

Lets remind you eh?


So it seems that despite being in a Union since 1707, you don't regard Scotland as being an equal part of this country.


Do you have similar reservations about Wales & Northern Ireland?


Does the integrity of the UK mean so little to you?


Are you really the personification of the archetypal Little Englander that the above quote shows you to be?


It's either that or you're just trolling.


Which is it?

Sorry to spoil your 'Gotcha' moment but as you've unwittingly flagged up, my personal grievance is with the politicians who've created what I feel in an inequitable situation between the constituent nations of the UK, your issue seems to be an anger induced hatred of some of your fellow Brits merely because they had the temerity to vote in a way that was at odds with your view on the UK's continued EU membership.

Takedap

LHW99 wrote: »

This, if said, would have been well before the internet.
Apart from the Times article, it is quoted in several books, eg:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gdbwDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA168&lpg=PA168&dq=de+Gaulle+Adenauer+Europe+trimmings&source=bl&ots=6MHW_n-tRD&sig=ACfU3U1W8w9HZu1SvxopIPkZeDMNqvGA8A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB4_iOsafiAhVkpHEKHUm6B84Q6AEIPjAN#v=onepage&q=de%20Gaulle%20Adenauer%20Europe%20trimmings&f=false
which is published by macMillan Higher Education, or if you prefer
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M8PpYS1fVq0C&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=de+Gaulle+Adenauer+Europe+trimmings&source=bl&ots=vf3BqSEVGz&sig=ACfU3U3Mn5UVQJRQJMjg1gNKGk1BYnoIwQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB4_iOsafiAhVkpHEKHUm6B84Q6AEILzAJ#v=onepage&q=de%20Gaulle%20Adenauer%20Europe%20trimmings&f=false
from 2004, by one of Blair's advisers

From your links, the excerpt 2004 book does not contain the quote.


The excerpt from the 2016 book says "It was famously reported that... Not that famously obviously.


Mind you, as you say, it was before the internet so obviously anything important from 1963 wouldn't have been published at the time would it?


When I first debated this with Tromking over 500 post ago, I did say that I would stand corrected if someone could provide a reliable citation.


I still haven't seen one that wasn't written decades after it was supposedly said.