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Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

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  • Takedap
    Takedap Posts: 808 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 500 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 4 May 2019 at 12:40PM
    LHW99 wrote: »
    And for those who prefer not to read the Express, the original document is here
    https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/acft/FCO+30+1048.pdf


    Thanks for the link to the full document rather than the extremely selective quotes from the Express article.


    It's a long tome running to over 200 pages but the main thrust is in the first 10 or so with the rest being mostly "Legales" explanation although it does go into the concept of the UK's idea of what being "British" means.



    The first bit is a Q&A session running to 21 questions & answers.
    For the benefit for those who don't want to trawl through it, I've summarised it below. Yes, I've shorted some of the Q&A but that's only because I can't cut & paste from what was originally a photocopied document. I have not changed the context & the link is still there for checking. All 21 are there with no omissions.



    The only Q/A I can find which some may find objectionable if Q15. I'll not spoil the surprise but I thnk that even this has been addressed by later opt-outs granted to us.


    Anyway, Enjoy.



    1 Q) Will the monarchy be affected? A) No


    2 Q) Will The constitutional position of the Crown in Parliament be affected? A) No


    3) Q) Will the UK cease to be regarded as a sovereign state in International law? A) No


    4) Q) Will our international influence be affected? A) Yes, It would be strengthened.


    5) Q) Would the UK retain it's freedom of action in matters of foreign affairs & defence? A) The treaties establishing the European Communities are limited to certain economic & commercial affairs & do not include defence.


    6) Q) Would the UK's treaties with other countries be affected? A) Yes, The UK would need to , with the agreement of any parties concerned, renegotiate treaties that would conflict with obligations under European Treaties.


    7) Q) Would the UK remain free to enter into future treaty commitments with other countries? A) Yes/No The UK would not be able to enter into any treaty which is contrary to the commitments in the European treaties. These treaties however, only impose obligations within their limited fields & outside these fields the UK's freedom to conclude treaties with other states would not be affected.


    8) Q) Are the treaties establishing the European Community intended to last forever? A) The treaties are concluded for an unlimited period.


    9) Q) Is it possible to withdraw from The treaties establishing the EC? A) Those treaties contain no provision expressly permitting or prohibiting withdrawal.


    10) Q) Would the procedure of Parliament be affected by membership of the EC? A) Nothing in the treaties establishing the EC requires member states to change the procedures of their legislative bodies.


    11) Q) Would ministers continue to be responsible to Parliament? A) Yes, Parliament would continue to exercise control over Ministers & moreover Ministers would be answerable to Parliament for the part they & their officials play in the formulation of Community policy.


    12 Q) Would Parliament's freedom to legislate how it chooses be affected? A) Parliament would have to take account of obligations assumed under EC treaties. Parliament would have to refrain (as it does with other treaties) from enacting legislation contrary to those obligations.


    13) Q) Would legislative acts made by the EC in Brussels have effect as law in the country? A) Yes Certain provisions apply directly as law in member states. However, by far the greater part of our domestic law would be unaffected.


    14) Q) What control would Parliament have over the preparation and making of Regulations, Directives & decisions? A) The UK will be represented by a Minister of the Crown who will be responsible to Parliament for his actions. Members of the UK Parliament will of course be represented in the European Parliament which is required to be consulted before new policies are adopted.


    15) Q) When a regulation has been made, would Parliament be able to reject it's application to the UK? A) This would not be consistent with the obligations which the UK would have assumed.


    16) Q) If a regulation made by a Community organ conflicts with a statute enacted by Parliament, would the Regulation or the Statute prevail? A) Parliament would have to be willing to give effect to the Regulation so it prevailed over the Statute; but see the answer to the next question. (this is in the text. It is NOT an addition of mine)


    17) Q) To what extent would the law which at present applies to the UK be affected by membership of the EC? A) By far the greater amount of our domestic law would be unaffected. The European treaties are concerned with economic, social & closely related matters.


    18) Q) Would common law still apply? A) Yes.


    19) Q) Would the procedures of our courts be affected by entry into the EC? A) Our courts would in certain cases need to refer matters to the European Court of Justice for rulings on points of Community law. But otherwise, the workings of our courts would be unaffected.


    20) Q) Would there be British representatives in the various institutions of the Commission? A) Yes. There would be British Parliamentarians sitting in the European Parliament. There would be a British judge on the European court, and British officials on the staff of the Commission, much on the same basis as other internetional organisations.


    21) Q) Would decisions be taken in the Communities which run counter to our national interests? A) All major decisions are taken my the Council of Ministers, on which we should represented. Although the European treaties provide for majority voting on most matters, the member states recognise that it is not in practice possible to force another member State to act contrary to it's national interests.






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  • Filo25
    Filo25 Posts: 2,140 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    It looks increasingly likely that the Tory and Labour leadership will come up with some kind of fudge on the customs union next week and put forward something that I suspect will end up getting through Parliament although with significant rebellions on both Labour and Tory sides.

    Remarkable for Labour to manage to bail the Tories out on this issue while annoying a hell of a lot of their voting base now (about 3/4 of Labour voters in 2017 are estimated to have been Remainers), but I suppose that is what happens when the leader is lifelong Brexiteer himself. Still it means you can all stop worrying about having a Labour government anytime soon!
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I don't understand what you mean.



    Business operates in a proactive manner. Not reactive. Profitability rules. They have no sovereignty nor social conscious.
    It's a simple question - why did you not answer it?

    Explain the benefits of CAP and allied trade policies on the price of food to the UK?
  • SouthLondonUser
    SouthLondonUser Posts: 1,445 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Still refusing to answer the original question, I see. This speaks volumes...
  • Rinoa
    Rinoa Posts: 2,701 Forumite
    gfplux wrote: »
    A Brexit Bonus?
    QUOTE
    Burberry has scrapped plans for a new factory to produce its trademark trenchcoats in Leeds. The site had been the centrepiece of a vaunted £50m investment in its British manufacturing base.

    The luxury brand announced the ambitious plan in 2015 but has now confirmed that the 4-hectare (10-acre) site in Leeds is to be sold off after several years of stalling in the wake of the Brexit vote. The scheme was the brainchild of Burberry’s last chief executive, Christopher Bailey.
    END QUOTE
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/04/burberry-scraps-plans-to-build-factory-in-leeds

    The referendum was 3 years ago. But they only decided now to not build another factory in the uk. Hmmm. Maybe they just aren't selling as much as they would like.

    Last year they famously burnt £28M of luxury items they couldn't sell. Easy to see why they don't need another factory.
    If I don't reply to your post,
    you're probably on my ignore list.
  • Arklight
    Arklight Posts: 3,182 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    Still refusing to answer the original question, I see. This speaks volumes...

    Yes. You will not get an answer at all. He'll disappear now for two pages then resurface like it never happened.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 15,935 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Arklight wrote: »
    Yes. You will not get an answer at all. He'll disappear now for two pages then resurface like it never happened.

    A business can explicitly mention brexit as it's reason for leaving he'll still claim they are lying for political reasons.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 15,935 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Thrugelmir wrote: »
    Business operates in a proactive manner. Not reactive. Profitability rules. They have no sovereignty nor social conscious

    Which is why they are happily abandoning the UK as a European manufacturing base. It's pointless without the beat access to Europe.
  • phillw
    phillw Posts: 5,665 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 5 May 2019 at 10:45AM
    LHW99 wrote: »
    The standards define the tests required for new materials, and the equipment used to carry them out.

    The tests may have been designed in the EU, but it was people in the UK that purposefully looked for loop holes in those tests.

    Blaming the EU is therefore xenophobia/racism as you're assuming that tests designed in the UK would have prevented that cheating. If that was likely then someone in the UK would have spoken out about it before Grenfell, more likely is someone who designed a test in the UK would consult on how to get round the UK tests.
    Herzlos wrote: »
    A business can explicitly mention brexit as it's reason for leaving he'll still claim they are lying for political reasons.

    Yeah, why upset the rabid half of the UK by saying that jobs are being lost in the UK due to the decision to leave the EU? It's a sure fire way to lose sales.

    Anyone pulling out of the UK and not blaming brexit is patronizing you, people who fell for the 350 million a week are sure going to fall for it.
  • buglawton
    buglawton Posts: 9,246 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    LHW99 wrote: »
    Certainly the standards involved are now EU rather than British standards. Industry has to adopt them, but the committees are Brussels based, and input from UK owned companies tends to be minimal as only the largest (global) corporations are likely to be asked to contribute. The standards define the tests required for new materials, and the equipment used to carry them out.
    Like diesel emissions standards? I wonder which country led the charge to get round those.

    Meanwhile there's France and the amount of respect it shows for animal husbandry standards or food hygene standards.
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