Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Herzlos

Malthusian wrote: »

You can't vote "don't know" in a referendum and undecided people generally vote for the status quo, which is now Leave.

We haven't left yet though, so the status quo is almost certainly Remain.

SpiderLegs

movilogo wrote: »

Brexit latest news: Less than half of Britons would back staying in EU, poll suggests

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/26/brexit-latest-news-tory-backbencher-bid-remove-backstop/

Journalistic license at its very finest there.

Takedap

Malthusian wrote: »

Each day that passes makes floaters less and less likely to vote for the unknown quantity of committing to the European project and ever closer union.

Remain know this which is why they have still not called a second referendum. They may be blustery but they're not thick.

The "Unknown Quantity" is leaving. Remaining has 40 years of proven success behind it. Remember being the UK being the "sick man of Europe"?

Enterprise_1701C

Seriously? No-one knows what rules the eu will make up next. Between the referendum in 1975 and the one in 2016 there was massive changes, none of which the eu thought needed approval by the people, they actively avoided treaty changes, just worked the various rules into the rule book another way.

There is no status quo to remaining on the eu, they decide what they want to do and foist those rules on to the countries, there is going to be no veto soon, they don't want countries vetoing their federal dream so everything will be decided through qmv.

At least when we get out we can decide for ourselves what we want to do, it may be through parliament but it will suit us rather than Germany and France.

movilogo

Remaining has 40 years of proven success behind it.

Pity that more than half of country consider it as failure

Herzlos

movilogo wrote: »

Pity that more than half of country consider it as failure

The truth doesn't care what people think. Some people think the earth is flat, or that vaccines cause autism.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Seriously? No-one knows what rules the eu will make up next.

You make it sound like the EU is some sinister organisation in a castle in Brussels throwing out edicts to vassal states. What you seem to miss is that we are the EU. We are actively involved in making the rules and have a veto. Very little can be done if we don't want it, currently.

Worst case from being inside the EU is that we can leave in a huff if we don't get our own way - we can't actually be forced to do anything.


Once we leave, then we have absolutely zero say in any rules, but will still need to follow almost all of them, so your statement becomes correct.

Therefor, if you're worried about the EU bossing us around, the answer is to Remain and continue to lead it.




Sure, the EU doesn't run every decision by referendum, but neither does the UK - we're a representative democracy and our representatives have been representing us at the EU for the whole of our membership. In some cases it's not done a good job at that, because we've elected people like Nigel Farage to represent us, a man with the 2nd worst attendance rate of all MEPs.

movilogo

The truth doesn't care what people think.

Don't confuse truth with opinion. Whether Brexit is good or bad is opinion and not absolute truth.

Truth is something which can be proven by mathematics or laws of physics etc.

Economics is an art and not absolute truth. Lower house price can be considered good and bad depending on what is your perspective.

hat you seem to miss is that we are the EU. We are actively involved in making the rules and have a veto.

Try changing 4-freedoms to 3 freedoms by taking away FOM. Let's see if EU can be convinced.

If "we" are "EU" then we don't have to [STRIKE]ask [/STRIKE]beg EU to change the laws. We are not EU, we follow EU rules.

Takedap

movilogo wrote: »

Truth is something which can be proven by mathematics or laws of physics etc.


If "we" are "EU" then we don't have to [STRIKE]ask [/STRIKE]beg EU to change the laws. We are not EU, we follow EU rules.

Yes. Truth can be proved by maths etc. https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377


The reason that "We" are not as influential as we could be is because of decisions that "We" have made. "We" could have sent competent representatives to Brussels. Instead "We" chose to send people like Farage, Bloom, Hookem et al whose stated aim was to try to destroy the organisation instead of making it work for us.

Herzlos

movilogo wrote: »

Try changing 4-freedoms to 3 freedoms by taking away FOM. Let's see if EU can be convinced.

If "we" are "EU" then we don't have to [STRIKE]ask [/STRIKE]beg EU to change the laws. We are not EU, we follow EU rules.

We don't own or dictate to the EU as we are a part of it. We could remove FoM if we could convince everyone else to agree. Once we've left we can't even suggest it.

BikingBud

Takedap wrote: »

The "Unknown Quantity" is leaving. Remaining has 40 years of proven success behind it. Remember being the UK being the "sick man of Europe"?

Define succes.

Success for Germany may not be a common perspective, you may wish to ask Greece:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2018/01/23/the-german-swindle-built-into-the-euro/#5055d91827da