Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Thrugelmir

lisyloo wrote: »

fWIW I voted to stay and I am pro immigrantion (I believe my views are different because I spend time in London where the value of immigration is very clear).

Be a tough life without all that cheap labour to perform unskilled menial tasks.

Arklight

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Be a tough life without all that cheap labour to perform unskilled menial tasks.

Hilarious, have you ever been to London? Maybe you should go someday. Your view of Sudanese refugees peeling chewing gum off the pavements while Indians gratefully catch some coins chucked by a city gent whose shoes they've just cleaned, could really use some updating.

BikingBud

Herzlos wrote: »

I think that's the crux of the problem - people have been told that being in the EU is bad because of a list of spurious reasons, and since it matches their prejudice they are happy to go along with it, despite most of the reasons either being (a) not the EU's fault (local issues), (b) fictional (£350 for the NHS, the refugee poster) or (c) blown out of all proportion (being full up, EU criminals etc).

Doesn't matter what people thought and whether you think their vote was sane or otherwise. People expressed their choice based upon a whole range of differing reasons. All that matters is that they did. You will recall there were many that did not express a preference in either way so must therefore be happy with the offer that was selected.

Herzlos wrote: »

As mentioned - once a criminal has served time their debt to society is assumed to be paid off and they are free to live a normal life wherever they were born. If we don't allow them to do that, we essentially produce a caste of outlaws who have no incentive to play along. Sort of like the US system where ex-cons struggle to find work/accomodation and have no choice but to go back to crime, coupled with the 3 strike policy which means you may as well go to jail for murder rather than stealing bread. Though that seems set up to fund the for-profit prison system.

Define "served their time". As many will get suspended sentences and others will serve concurrently for many "offences taken into consideration". Also many will have their freedom restricted for only 50% of the actual sentence. Moreover why should career criminals not be segregated to protect the law abiding amongst us. Maybe some of the parents of those stabbed recently may have a thought on this.

Herzlos wrote: »

You can claim we need to leave the EU to stop EU criminals coming over here and murdering people, but it seems to hold the same merit as claiming that EU citizens contributing here is the reason the Dodo went extinct. It does confirm the idea that Brexit was an ideological deal and is immune to facts and reasoning.

It confirms nothing of the sort. We have enough of our own home-grown criminals, we all recognise that.

But let's get back to the current argument and not get sidetracked. Brexit is achievable, let's start with a clean slate and trust the people of the UK to rise to the challenge rather than hiding away in the folds of Merkel's apron because some doom mongers think the sky might fall in if we leave. Because when it does fall in for the rest of Europe, for all the pre-existing reasons, (all countries are massively overdrawn) our options outside are likely to be significantly better than bailing out all Europe.

Herzlos

movilogo wrote: »

Not a lie - Turkey was a candidate. After 2016 the tide has turned though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

A candidate with no real prospect of joining in the near future.

BobQ

movilogo wrote: »

Not a lie - Turkey was a candidate. After 2016 the tide has turned though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

Not a lie? Take it from the mouth of the liar....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/16/michael-gove-admits-leave-was-wrong-to-fuel-immigration-fears

BobQ

trf1960 wrote: »

I keep questioning what it was that David Cameron got so miffed off with the EU for, when he went asking for reform/changes and they told him where to go, for him to then put it to Parliament and for them to agree to a referendum in the first place!

A divided Tory party can motivate its leader to such lunacy.

Tromking

trf1960 wrote: »

I keep questioning what it was that David Cameron got so miffed off with the EU for, when he went asking for reform/changes and they told him where to go, for him to then put it to Parliament and for them to agree to a referendum in the first place!

The committment to a referendum came before Cameron's brush off by all and sundry in Europe.
Although Cameron did warn of the consequences when he and the UK were humiliated by the usual suspects over the appointment of Arch-Federalist Juncker a couple of years previous to the referendum.

Malthusian

Arklight wrote: »

Hilarious, have you ever been to London? Maybe you should go someday. Your view of Sudanese refugees peeling chewing gum off the pavements while Indians gratefully catch some coins chucked by a city gent whose shoes they've just cleaned, could really use some updating.

Are you going to invite Thrugelmir up to your Canary Wharf tower where all the foreign workers work in high-powered jobs in finance and law, before popping out for brunch to an artisanal coffee shop staffed by Polish students?

The reality is that both classes exist, but only one class has their existence denied as politically inconvenient.

Enterprise_1701C

Herzlos wrote: »

Isn't he one of the immigrants we want to keep out?


Seriously though, I agree with you in that the immigration system in the UK is a joke - windrush, pensioners being denied settled status, invites being issued for hundreds of Indian doctors the NHS desperately needed and being cancelled because that months quota was used up.


Or this horror show a new baby born in the UK, to settled parents, was denied settled status and only given a 6 month tourist visa: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/20/uk-born-baby-of-parents-with-right-to-remain-given-six-month-tourist-stamp

The rules seem to be enforced with no common sense and really targetting the low hanging fruit.

The immigration system is a joke, and is only done to pretend to be hard on migrants to placate the right wing.

The parents may be settled but they are not UK citizens. There is nothing stopping them registering said child as a British citizen, but it is not automatic. This has been the case since 1983.

If we don't enforce the rules for one child then the next one to come along will say "but baby A got special treatment so we want it" etc.

trf1960 wrote: »

I keep questioning what it was that David Cameron got so miffed off with the EU for, when he went asking for reform/changes and they told him where to go, for him to then put it to Parliament and for them to agree to a referendum in the first place!

At least he did not renege on that promise like Bliar did, twice.

phillw

Malthusian wrote: »

The reality is that both classes exist, but only one class has their existence denied as politically inconvenient.

I don't see either being denied, or their existence being significant.

Maybe there are some politicians who try to appeal to bigots, but I'm not aware of that.

Tromking wrote: »

The committment to a referendum came before Cameron's brush off by all and sundry in Europe.

David Cameron: Give me something that I'm not entitled to because some bigots in the UK say we are better than you
EU: ?
Bigots: All and sundry have brushed off David Cameron, we must leave.