Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

Half the country want one thing, half the country want another. .

Exclude Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales , Gilbrater and expats living abroad. England's wish is very clear. Unsuprisingly as it's taken the full brunt of the influx of uncontrolled immigration. .

Herzlos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Exclude Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales , Gilbrater and expats living abroad. England's wish is very clear. Unsuprisingly as it's taken the full brunt of the influx of uncontrolled immigration. .

And has benefited greatly from it.

lisyloo

phillw wrote: »

It's a tiny margin, 1.9% of people who voters. Which is less than the number of EU citizens that will be registering to vote.

Trying to make a big deal out of it is just going to make it drag on forever.

In % term yes, but it was 1.4 million people want it?

I voted to remain but I being balanced when I say a lot of people don’t consider a majority of 1.4 million to be “tiny”.

Herzlos

lisyloo wrote: »

In % term yes, but it was 1.4 million people want it?

I voted to remain but I being balanced when I say a lot of people don’t consider a majority of 1.4 million to be “tiny”.

% terms are all that matter. 1.4 million sounds like a big number, which is why Leave keep banging on about it, but if you divide anything 52/48 and don't label it then most people will struggle to tell which is bigger. Statistcally, 51.9% with a fairly normal 2% margin for error could be anywhere from 49.9% to 53.9%.

Herzlos

lisyloo wrote: »

Not IMO - they made a conscious choice
Not IMO - they made a conscious choice
Not IMO - yes many of us were unsure, but we didn’t shirk our responsibilities when between a rock and hard place. Just shrugging shoulders and not voting means you lose the right to complain about what you get IMO.

Why does the conscious choice mean they don't get a say? EU citizens working in the UK are most affected by Brexit but have no say. Ditto expats (migrants).

lisyloo

Herzlos wrote: »

Why does the conscious choice mean they don't get a say? EU citizens working in the UK are most affected by Brexit but have no say. Ditto expats (migrants).

They are not UK citizens.
Are you saying anyone can come over here and tell us how to run our country?
Expats have chosen to leave and have chosen to not contribute in many ways.

Only sympathy I have is for those too young or those who have lost mental capacity (who oddly enough don’t lose the right to vote).

Herzlos

lisyloo wrote: »

They are not UK citizens.
Are you saying anyone can come over here and tell us how to run our country?

No, most of them weren't since it costs about £1500 for the application process. What happened to that old "No taxation without representation" thing? They have the same rights as us for everything else - to work, buy property, get utilities, use health care, put kids into education, pay taxes. Why shouldn't resident EU citizens get to vote? It's not as if many non-residents would fly in just to vote.

Expats have chosen to leave and have chosen to not contribute in many ways.

But most are still legally British, and are often drawing UK pensions in Sterling. They'd be perfectly entitled to return to the UK (and some may be forced to do so, either by reciprocal agreement or being priced out by the drop in Sterling).

BobQ

BikingBud wrote: »

No.

More than half of those that voted want to leave.

Less than half of those that voted want to stay.

You try to simplify but only mislead and misinform.

That was a referendum that measured popular opinion at an instance of time.

I accept that there are a large number of people who are obsessively in favour of leaving and also a large number of people who are obsessively in favour of remaining.

But there are many more who are not sure one way or the other. The Leave community cannot agree on whether they want a no-deal Brexit or a May Brexit or some other form of Brexit. In short it is impossible to give those that voted leave a Brexit that they voted for. If Parliament cannot agree on something, a public vote is the sensible way forward.

Those that do not want this are opposing democracy while wrapping themselves in the referendum being immutable and accusing others of being anti-democratic. I cannot see any other way of uniting the nation than saying this is the best deal we can achieve, do you want this or remain.

BobQ

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

There is no excuse for not voting.

The poll day was given a long way ahead of time.

Postal votes were available for those that wanted them.

If you want something badly enough you vote for it.

You say leavers are fixating on the massive margin of more than the population of more than the population of Birmingham? It is you that is trying to make it an excuse for getting your way.

Maybe you will change your way of thinking when somewhere like Italy goes down and wrecks the rest of the eu.

Its true that anyone who wanted to vote could do so. The problem was that there were many people who did not. Some no doubt would never have voted but others were genuinely uncertain about what they wanted, what leave meant, what was best for the nation and best for themselves, what the issues were, who to believe.

phillw

lisyloo wrote: »

They are not UK citizens.
Are you saying anyone can come over here and tell us how to run our country?

Yes, if you come and contribute to society then of course you should have a say in how it's run. Can you give me any reason why they shouldn't?

The alternative is xenophobia. They didn't need to become UK citizens because they had freedom of movement, we let them vote in council elections but not national ones, seems discriminatory to me.

There was a time when women weren't allowed to vote and even men needed a certain level of wealth before they could vote, similar things will have been said to justify why women or poor men shouldn't tell us what to do.

You lost me when you used the word "our", it's a classic tell.