Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

phillw

BikingBud wrote: »

Does it includes a Federal armed forces?

No, that isn't happening. That is like Farages claim that Turkey were about to join.

There are talks for a NATO style arrangement for the EU, but that is mainly because NATO is likely to fail if Trump pulls the US out. We have a long history of similar treaties.

BikingBud wrote: »

Does it include taking on the €

We can only hope so.

BikingBud wrote: »

Does it include dissolving Parliament?

We dissolve parliament every four years.

BikingBud wrote: »

Does it include removing our legal system?

No, where did that come from?

BikingBud wrote: »

Does it include ignoring our democratic history and precedents since the signing of the Magna Carta?

Precedents are ignored all the time, they are only binding on lower courts. I'm not sure what you mean by democratic history, for most of the 804 years since Magna Carta was signed we've had a pretty poor democratic history.

BikingBud

phillw wrote: »

Ok, I'll dumb it down for you.



I don't particularly care about three year old advisory referendums that have unachievable outcomes.

You were promised a load of lies, one of the people has even written a book about how they promised you lies. There are ongoing criminal investigations. If you cared about democracy then you wouldn't be arguing that every cast vote was an informed vote, with such a slim majority then there is too much danger that the outcome is invalid.

This is how democracies deal with misinformed referendums https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/switzerland-referendum-result-overturn-supreme-court-brexit-eu-vote-a8866131.html

Anyone who argues that the result was legitimate should be treated with contempt and never trusted.

Perhaps you could stop pasting links to paywall protected sites so we could read them and consider their worth.

BikingBud

phillw wrote: »

No, that isn't happening. That is like Farages claim that Turkey were about to join.

There are talks for a NATO style arrangement for the EU, but that is mainly because NATO is likely to fail if Trump pulls the US out.



We can only hope so.



We dissolve parliament every four years.



No, where did that come from?



Precedents are ignored all the time, they are only binding on lower courts. I'm not sure what you mean by democratic history, for most of the 804 years since Magna Carta was signed we've had a pretty poor democratic history.

I was hoping we could get a consensus on what "fully in" means.

Perhaps we could let this run and then see how many different perspectives and prejudices there are about remaining.

What is absolutely clear is that remain (or fully in) is not the status quo that many feel it to be.

phillw

BikingBud wrote: »

Perhaps you could stop pasting links to paywall protected sites so we could read them and consider their worth.

The article loads fully for me and there is even a video & I haven't paid them anything. Did you even try it?

How about this one, I have no idea if this is behind one of your dreaded paywalls that make you so grouchy.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/13/switzerland-hold-second-referendum-voters-misled-9197690/

BikingBud wrote: »

I was hoping we could get a consensus on what "fully in" means.

Other than the question of the euro, which we currently have a veto on but may not if we left and rejoined & could be argued that fully in would mean dropping our veto, then all of the things you were discussing are just things that leave supporters lied about to persuade you to vote to leave.

You may as well ask whether being fully in requires us to eat sauerkraut. I'm interested why some people really hate the idea of the euro though, I think it would be good for us.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

Switzerland voids referendum after voters poorly informed:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/switzerland-referendum-result-overturn-supreme-court-brexit-eu-vote-a8866131.html

Brexiteers are always claiming we should be more like Switzerland.

There have been 153 referenda in Switzerland this century and 152 of them were fine. I agree. We should be more like Switzerland.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

I'm interested why some people really hate the idea of the euro though, I think it would be good for us.

why would you think that given all the evidence of the economic damage it has inflicted on the ClubMed countries?

Enterprise_1701C

phillw wrote: »

No, that isn't happening. That is like Farages claim that Turkey were about to join.

There are talks for a NATO style arrangement for the EU, but that is mainly because NATO is likely to fail if Trump pulls the US out. We have a long history of similar treaties.



We can only hope so.



We dissolve parliament every four years.



No, where did that come from?



Precedents are ignored all the time, they are only binding on lower courts. I'm not sure what you mean by democratic history, for most of the 804 years since Magna Carta was signed we've had a pretty poor democratic history.

Are you actually British? Because most Brits actually know that a parliamentary term is 5 years.

Our legal system is very different to that in places like France, once the us of e is in place they would want everyone to do it the same way.

As for the army we would be a major contributor to that, so we would not have our forces available when WE needed them, it would be at the behest of the Germans.

As for taking the euro, have you not noticed what has happened in most countries that take it? It is geared to the german economy, it was created to give them an advantage, and to use as a cosh to force countries to remain jn the eu.

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

There are talks for a NATO style arrangement for the EU, but that is mainly because NATO is likely to fail if Trump pulls the US out. We have a long history of similar treaties.

Hardly surprising that Trump is pulling the USA out. When countries such as Germany continue to fail to make their due contribution to funding.

SpiderLegs

phillw wrote: »

Ok, I'll dumb it down for you.
I don't particularly care about three year old advisory referendums that have unachievable outcomes.

My guess is that you cared an awful lot about it, right up until the point it didn’t deliver the result you were expecting.

All sounds a bit like a spoilt child really.

Thrugelmir

Originally Posted by phillw
I'm interested why some people really hate the idea of the euro though, I think it would be good for us.

I thought that you well informed. Obviously not. As there's plenty written regarding the future viability of the Euro. None should be any great surprise. As has it's roots in the foundations of the entire poltical project. After 20 years in recession. Italy's participation shows clearly that one size doesn't fit all.