Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Moby

BikingBud wrote: »

I recognise that this will drag out for a number of years, that is unfortunately the by-produce of a talking shop democracy, bit like a student union really.

But what the politicians should be also be doing in recognition should be to address the long term damage and act accordingly rather than just squabbling.

If there is 'long term damage' in prospect for us......why on earth are we going through with it?

Thrugelmir

SpiderLegs wrote: »

I do agree with the point on Cameron. Stupid gamble really. With hindsight instead of an up-front referendum he could have promised a root and branch review of our eu membership and the alternatives, followed by a referendum based on all that.

As a reminder

Pledge
“Can we carry on with an organisation that has a multi-billion pound budget but not enough focus on controlling spending and shutting down programmes that haven’t worked? - David Cameron in his January 2013 Bloomberg speech

What he got

Draft text:
A pledge by the European Commission to continue its current work cutting red tape. Specifically “continue its efforts to make EU law simpler and to reduce regulatory burden for EU business operators...by applying the 2015 Better Regulation Agenda, including in particular the Commission's Regulatory Fitness and Performance Programme (REFIT). Cutting red tape for entrepreneurship, in particular small and medium size enterprises, remains an overarching goal for all of us in delivering growth and jobs.” (Draft declaration on subsidiarity implementation mechanism)

Final deal: Unchanged

Herzlos

Interesting article on the laws the EU has forced on us. How many would the brexiteers on here repeal and why?

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/rationalist-destroys-leavers-with-list-of-all-eu-laws-that-have-been-forced-on-us-against-our-will/22/01/

buglawton

Ah but look at what the Romans did for us... didn't mean we had to stay part of the Roman Empire.

Thrugelmir

buglawton wrote: »

Ah but look at what the Romans did for us... didn't mean we had to stay part of the Roman Empire.

The Roman Empire like all the others. In the end collapsed. The bigger an Empire grows the less manageable it becomes. As the influence from the centre becomes diluted and less relevant.

Herzlos

The collapse of Rome is an interesting one; they certainly outgrew their sphere of influence and it became unmanageable, but would the same happen in a more connected modern world?
We can travel from one end of the empire to the other in a single digit number of hours. We can send messages in seconds that may have taken weeks to arrive previously. We can talk in real time and make perfect copies of documents.

buglawton wrote: »

Ah but look at what the Romans did for us... didn't mean we had to stay part of the Roman Empire.

Indeed, but I'm just trying to explore the whole "EU dictatorship angle". EU forcing us to enact laws we don't want was one of the more valid leave claims. It seems to me a bit like the trade deals thing; going it alone sounds good in theory but no-one has any practical suggestions as to why.

I'd be a lot more suggestive to these claims if anyone making them had anything to back them up.

phillw

Herzlos wrote: »

EU forcing us to enact laws we don't want was one of the more valid leave claims.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

The UK voted against things because the EU was trying to stop all their fiddles, it's usually in our interests that the EU forced us to take on those laws

The people have spoken, they want cheap food to cause cancer and they want it now.

buglawton wrote: »

Ah but look at what the Romans did for us... didn't mean we had to stay part of the Roman Empire.

The Romans took over by force, the EU gives stability through co-operation. After we fought back against the Romans the UK quickly reverted and lost all the advances that the Romans bought.

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

After we fought back against the Romans the UK quickly reverted and lost all the advances that the Romans bought.

The Roman army was withdrawn. After which Britain was invaded by barbarians . Many of whom settled here.

Arklight

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The Roman army was withdrawn. After which Britain was invaded by barbarians . Many of whom settled here.

There's immigrants for you.

gfplux

Most people would agree that the present is hurting both Britain and the EU27.
That uncertainty could be ended by Parliament agreeing the withdrawal/transition/political declaration deal. Wouldn’t that be the best course of action?
The other choices are not very attractive.