Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

50, work out what we really want to do and then start the process again. A two year extension would come close to this.

Still leaves the unresolvable Irish border issue. Mean while the infighting in the UK makes the Union increasingly fractured.

BikingBud

phillw wrote: »

No, the obvious conclusion is they didn't think their vote was necessary because they assumed we would remain anyway.

There are also a lot of people who didn't vote because they didn't feel the options were clear enough. I'm not sure the situation has particularly changed, the lies leave told still have legs even though they've been thoroughly discredited.

Obvious to whom. Those that don't like the outcome?

If people thought the options were not clear, what action did they take to educate themselves?

Or why not just vote for whatever felt right, lest we end up with a 1/3 of the people deciding, see post about Newport by election.

No good feeling dis-enfranchised after you haven't exercised your legal right.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Love him or hate him. Do you not think that Trump raises valid concerns that affect us all.

Like the sound of windmills causing cancer? He's an actual idiot.
Some of his concerns might be sort of valid if you squint hard enough and ignore reality. America has some real problems, but nothing Trump is going to do will help.

phillw

BikingBud wrote: »

If people thought the options were not clear, what action did they take to educate themselves?

More than the leave voters, but they weren't so quick to show ISIS levels of intolerance & jump to the conclusion that it's all the fault of the EU.

The most depressing story on bbc news is about the man who received a passport without any reference to the European Union on it and he now "has his identity back", but his wife is disappointed because hers was renewed at the same time and it does reference the European Union.

BikingBud wrote: »

If you re-consider that statement I think you'll will find that assertion to be wholly false.

You'll have to give us a clue, because it's really tricky to figure out why you think that.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

They should not have made that assumption, if you want something badly enough you vote for it, simple.

Second referendum, see who wants it badly now. If you don't support that, then don't come back at us with this "will of the people" baloney. It's pure insanity to drive a country into the ground on a school yard chant of "you snooze you lose".

Let's see where democracy takes us, without the second referendum you're not going to get a brexit that you'll like.

BikingBud

phillw wrote: »

More than the leave voters, but they weren't so quick to show ISIS levels of intolerance & jump to the conclusion that it's all the fault of the EU.

And of course you have shown the patience, tolerance and understanding of a saint during this process:rotfl:

phillw wrote: »

You'll have to give us a clue, because it's really tricky to figure out why you think that.

Because its very simple counting.

How does someone deduce that "56.8% of the Newport West electorate voted for a pro-remain party (Labour/Plaid/LD/Green/Renew) in 2019"?

When only 1/3 of the electorate voted.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You need to take the tints off mate and see what the figures actually say rather than what you want them to say:T

phillw

BikingBud wrote: »

And of course you have shown the patience, tolerance and understanding of a saint during this process:rotfl:

I'm tolerant, I haven't protested that you shouldn't be allowed into this country.

I'm patient, I don't care if they drag it out.

I'm understanding, people just don't always want to be understood.

BikingBud wrote: »

When only 1/3 of the electorate voted.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You need to take the tints off mate and see what the figures actually say rather than what you want them to say:T

So you're going to stop this will of the people rubbish? When only 37% of the electorate voted to leave the EU. It's simple counting:T
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I don't think "leave" and "don't know" should automatically go into a coalition without a confirmatory vote.

buglawton

By 'don't know', you of course mean 'didn't (bother to) vote'.
How will a confirmatory vote represent the 'didn't vote' contingent?

BikingBud

Again you missed the point @Mayonaise made a statement that was factually incorrect you come on and ask why i feel that. I explain and you still don't get it.

Why would you protest my legitimacy to be in the Country?

You are not tolerant. You have actually been quite spiteful but cannot see it, comparing people to ISIS supporters and also suggesting that I was a racist and suggesting I should wind my neck in. Very tolerant!
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=75638838&postcount=2142

Being patient actually mean that the whole affair drags out much longer than necessary and does much more damage than the swift clean break ever would have. Uncertainty is the enemy of all!

I think you are getting confused again mate. The fact is that a majority voted, 51.7% of votes but 37% of the electorate, to leave, hence it is the will of the people. The same as a majority voted for Ruth Jones, only 14.6% (9308/63623) of the electorate as the turnout was only 37%. Is she not the candidate that was returned as the MP?

Do you not see how its all a bit farcical that with less than a 1/6 of the population voting these people go to Parliament?

phillw

BikingBud wrote: »

Why would you protest my legitimacy to be in the Country?

For the same reason leavers protest the legitimacy for being in the country.

I don't accept the poorly thought out argument that being born somewhere should give you any more rights than anyone else.

I'm an atheist so I don't believe you have a right given to you be a deity, so any legitimacy you have is man made by people with their own prejudices.

BikingBud wrote: »

Again you missed the point @Mayonaise made a statement that was factually incorrect you come on and ask why i feel that. I explain and you still don't get it.

I get it, you're being pedantic and then when I got you to explain it then I used your argument against you.

BikingBud wrote: »

You have actually been quite spiteful but cannot see it, comparing people to ISIS supporters and also suggesting that I was a racist and suggesting I should wind my neck in. Very tolerant!

I'm not scared of someone in the EU making a law which affects me, they seem to have done a really good job of it so far. A lot of people are scared that foreigners will treat them badly despite no evidence, those people are xenophobic.

I'm also not scared of immigrants coming here taking jobs and contributing to our economy. I have met so many leave voters who don't have the self awareness to understand that what they are saying is xenophobic, but get upset because you've described them with a "bad" word.

It's often said that people start left wing and get more right wing as they get older, I started right wing & got more tolerant as I got older. But it doesn't mean I'm a pushover. If you wanted people to be tolerant of you then you shouldn't have started out by being intolerant of others. I'm a great believer in treating others how you want to be treated, eventually I give people what they surely want.

Moby

BikingBud wrote: »

Being patient actually mean that the whole affair drags out much longer than necessary and does much more damage than the swift clean break ever would have. Uncertainty is the enemy of all!

This Brexit is going to go on for years. There is not going to be a clean break. That's just puerile nonsense. Look at the trouble the withdrawal agreement is causing; the political declaration is the future relationship and we haven't started on that yet! You were lied to by politicians who you should never have trusted.