Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

movilogo

Norway is not in the EU and has FoM. Farage who wants to leave the EU suggested Norway.

Don't assume Farage's definition of Leave is same as everyone else's

Norway is in SM and SM comes with 4 freedoms.

CU may or may not include FOM but as the name is "custom" it means it entirely depends on what deal UK agrees with EU.

phillw

movilogo wrote: »

If you ask me one single parameter which defines IN/OUT of EU, it is FOM.

If FOM continues we are in EU. If FOM stops, we are out of EU.

A large problem with the referendum is that people don't even understand what EU membership is. Freedom of movement is part of the single market, which Labour had as their manifesto pledge. So they have a mandate for pursuing it.

movilogo wrote: »

The problem is that we need FoM (for the NI border, and to fill jobs) despite telling everyone their lives would be better if we ended it

AFAIK official government policy is still that EU membership is better for everyone. We're implementing brexit as a worse option because more people turned up on a day three years ago.

movilogo wrote: »

Don't assume Farage's definition of Leave is same as everyone else's

All the brexit supporting politicians want to increase their relative wealth compared to the rest of is.

mayonnaise

movilogo wrote: »

Don't assume Farage's definition of Leave is same as everyone else's

We're constantly being told on here there's only one way of leaving and all leave voters knew exactly what that way is.

movilogo

A large problem with the referendum is that people don't even understand what EU membership is.

I don't think even MPs understand that either. It is intentionally obfuscated so that people in power can interpret it whatever way they want.

It seems such interpretation only becomes a problem when common people tries

Hence, we should take voting rights away from common people?

We're constantly being told on here there's only one way of leaving and all leave voters knew exactly what that way is.

We were also continuously being told that sky would fall over us if UK decides to leave EU. So works both ways

phillw

movilogo wrote: »

I don't think even MPs understand that either. It is intentionally obfuscated so that people in power can interpret it whatever way they want.

If you believe Farage, Johnson & Mogg then I'd see how you would think that.

They understand it, they just aren't explaining it.

movilogo wrote: »

Hence, we should take voting rights away from common people?

The educated common people didn't believe them, so the solution would obviously be to improve education.

movilogo wrote: »

We were also continuously being told that sky would fall over us if UK decides to leave EU. So works both ways

No you weren't, the sky can't fall in. You were told that we'd be worse off. A lot of leavers are still clinging to the possibility that won't happen, because the elite said we might be better off (i.e. the elite will be, the rest won't).

Herzlos

movilogo wrote: »

Don't assume Farage's definition of Leave is same as everyone else's

True, but as an MEP, leader of UKIP and poster boy for the Leave campaign, I'd assume he's got a better idea of what leaving the EU means than most.


Even if he didn't, he still advertised Norway as being a valid leave option. If that's not true, then he should be held to account for lying and the referendum unwound.


It also beautifully illustrates how disjointed Leave is - despite all the claims that everyone wants the same thing (which changes with every setback). 2 years ago no-one was talking about a no-deal, because we were going to get the easiest deal in history.

ukcarper

AG47 wrote: »

It's not what anybody wants, but it's the default if there I no agreement.

I'm sorry to say, but no agreement is what is happeneing

We can revoke article 50 unilateral not that I think that would be a good thing.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Norway is not in the EU and has FoM. Farage who wants to leave the EU suggested Norway.


Turkey has a CU but no FoM and isn't in the EU.


The problem is that we need FoM (for the NI border, and to fill jobs) despite telling everyone their lives would be better if we ended it

That is not correct and Farage's qoute is taken out of context.

phillw

Herzlos wrote: »

Even if he didn't, he still advertised Norway as being a valid leave option. If that's not true, then he should be held to account for lying and the referendum unwound.

I don't know if it counts as lying, just a general part of the disinformation campaign.

He talks a lot about norway and how great it is, but doesn't say that the norway model was a valid option. Like Boris "wouldn't it be great if we gave the NHS 350 million a week".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=fNCwcTu9U6U

He would argue that he only said it would be great if we were like Norway "Rich, free, catching your own fish." and forget everything else, it's basically cake 2.0

ukcarper

mayonnaise wrote: »

We're constantly being told on here there's only one way of leaving and all leave voters knew exactly what that way is.

That may be true but it fairly obvious what leave voters concerns were and a Norway style leave satisfies none of them.