Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

You mean in the EU which is poised to enter its third recession in a decade? Some prosperity.

Ask the young unemployed of most of Southern Europe how prosperous they feel.

You keep banging this drum, but it's still entirely irrelevant. The UK was prospering in the EU, as is/will Scotland. That some other parts of the EU didn't*, doesn't mean that it's in the UK's interest to leave.





*And even then, we don't know how they'd fare outside of the EU. Would Greece/Spain/Italy be in better shape from the outside? They'd have their own currency and associated levels to pull, but they'd have poorer access to the EU and likely looser regulations.

Enterprise_1701C

Kohoutek wrote: »

Okay, so your argument that the UK's long term strategy should be becoming the 51st state is that we're not in the Eurozone (we weren't for 17 years before Brexit either and neither are 8 other EU member states) and Brexit has "undermined our credentials" (even though leaders of member states / EU officials have said they would prefer the UK not to leave).

What was the argument about becoming supine to the US again?

The only reason eu officials do not want us to leave is the money, especially as rebates are going to disappear and they will need more money if they take on more countries,oh and possibly guaranteed fishing rights. If they had really wanted us to stay then they would have sent Cameron back with more than a slap in the face.

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The only reason eu officials do not want us to leave is the money, especially as rebates are going to disappear and they will need more money if they take on more countries,oh and possibly guaranteed fishing rights. If they had really wanted us to stay then they would have sent Cameron back with more than a slap in the face.

Really? You think the EU only want to keep us in because of a whopping 6% of their annual budget? They can scale back by 6% an more on happily.


I think they care much, much more about trade.

fatbeetle

Herzlos wrote: »

Really? You think the EU only want to keep us in because of a whopping 6% of their annual budget? They can scale back by 6% an more on happily.


I think they care much, much more about trade.

They care about losing a cash cow, one which pays in more than it takes out. The UK has been the third or fourth largest contributing country to the EU budget in recent years, and of the 28 EU members is one of 10 to contribute more than it gets back in receipts.

But you're right on trade.

smipsy

funny how no other country which pays more in than it takes out will cry about it as much as UK does.

on a continent intended to be integrated, friendly and unionist, more importance is given to the 5 to 10 quid more on a yearly tax which would go to other, less wealthy countries so they can improve as well, making everyone better off on average.

are people so hurt about a potential loss of a pint or two per year, so long as some Europeans don't get anything? obviously they are, so I suppose it shouldn't be a wonder that this kind of people would rather see some people living worse off if it costs them a trip to the chippy.

Enterprise_1701C

It's not about that, not in my book anyway.

It is about getting the hell out before they decide they are going to run everything. Do not like the idea of the 'ever closer union', there is only one place for it to end, and that is the inevitable us of e. They do not like national identities, they want everyone to be 'european'. That is not a good fit for the UK.

But yes, they will miss the money from the UK subs, if it was so insignificant they would have tried to bribe us with sub-free years. And the subs will only go up, they will remove the rebate and as they admit more non-contributing countries they will be looking for more money than ever.

We have always been seperate from 'the continent', we are an island and that has perhaps increased the strength of our national identity. Our attitude is very different to that of the French and Germans, as is the way we live. Chalk and cheese are not capable of mixing without both being broken down, whilst the continent may be happy for that to happen I don't think we are in the UK.

andrewf75

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

But yes, they will miss the money from the UK subs, if it was so insignificant they would have tried to bribe us with sub-free years. And the subs will only go up, they will remove the rebate and as they admit more non-contributing countries they will be looking for more money than ever.

I doubt they will miss the money as much as we will miss the benefits of EU membership...

We have always been seperate from 'the continent', we are an island and that has perhaps increased the strength of our national identity.

Yes, we have an island mentality, but I wouldn't say we have a *strong* national identity. England specifically has a very weak one, which is partly why people feel threatened by the EU. Most EU countries have much stronger national identities than England because they have constantly had to fight for it - we haven't for centuries

Our attitude is very different to that of the French and Germans, as is the way we live. Chalk and cheese are not capable of mixing without both being broken down, whilst the continent may be happy for that to happen I don't think we are in the UK.

Plenty of examples of chalk and cheese within Europe, but I don't see how we are uniquely different. Of the 3 countries you mention, I'd say the UK and Germany share more in common than Germany and France.

buglawton

smipsy wrote: »

funny how no other country which pays more in than it takes out will cry about it as much as UK does.

on a continent intended to be integrated, friendly and unionist, more importance is given to the 5 to 10 quid more on a yearly tax which would go to other, less wealthy countries so they can improve as well, making everyone better off on average.

are people so hurt about a potential loss of a pint or two per year, so long as some Europeans don't get anything? obviously they are, so I suppose it shouldn't be a wonder that this kind of people would rather see some people living worse off if it costs them a trip to the chippy.

Funny indeed.
Here's an article by the respected Die Zeit pointing out that though Germany is the biggest payer in, it profits hugely from its membership. That's why not much complaining there.
https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2014-05/eu-mythen-check-kommission/seite-3

Germany whose manufacturing industries incidentally are gaining a lot from being in the depressed Euro, keeping exports competitive, knows how to play the EU game for the benefit of Germans. Germany now has an embarrassingly big trade surplus with the rest of the world.

In stark contrast British politicians don't know how the play that game for the benefit of ordinary Brits and never will. We're better off out.

Takedap

smipsy wrote: »

funny how no other country which pays more in than it takes out will cry about it as much as UK does.

on a continent intended to be integrated, friendly and unionist, more importance is given to the 5 to 10 quid more on a yearly tax which would go to other, less wealthy countries so they can improve as well, making everyone better off on average.

are people so hurt about a potential loss of a pint or two per year, so long as some Europeans don't get anything? obviously they are, so I suppose it shouldn't be a wonder that this kind of people would rather see some people living worse off if it costs them a trip to the chippy.

Totally agree. Given the choice, I'd be reasonable wealthy & living somewhere that my neighbours were of a similar standard rather than be a multi-millionaire living in a gated compound surrounded by poverty.


At the moment, some EU counties are net beneficiaries. As their economies improve, they put more in & everyone benefits.

andrewf75

buglawton wrote: »

Funny indeed.
Here's an article by the respected Die Zeit pointing out that though Germany is the biggest payer in, it profits hugely from its membership. That's why not much complaining there.
https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2014-05/eu-mythen-check-kommission/seite-3
.

but surely so do we. The difference is that the German government looks after German interests whereas the UK government looks after business interests