Virgin media robbing my Grandmother!

[Deleted User]

Cornucopia wrote: »

The OP's Grandparents had/have a VM phone service, and therefore have a VM connection point in their home. I don't see that as in dispute.

The questions are:-

- Was a TV box ever supplied? What is/was its serial number?
- Was it installed by an Engineer? When?
- If VM claim it was self-installed, do they have evidence of the commencement of TV service to that box?
- Are there any on-going usage records?
- What are VM's processes for enabling a new TV connection?
- Does it have any provisions for identifying TV connections that are inactive for a period of time, and does this involve the customer?
- Does VM have the capability to differentiate between a box that is connected but inactive, and a connection that has "lost" its associated TV box?

Don't you think the CISAS (Communications and Internet Services Adjudication Scheme) adjudicator has already considered all those questions before deciding NOT to uphold the complaint?
Basically, it appears that Virgin's version of events has been accepted over the testimony of the complainant.
Unfortunately , the complainant was not actually there and is stating (without any evidence) that his or her grandfather could not possibly have Virgin TV apparently simply because they have Sky TV.

Like Colin Maybe above, I suspect that there is a indeed a set top TV box associated with the household in question and that it's probably been disconnected and discarded. Virgin will certainly have the serial number of any such equipment.
However, Virgin will only have records of paid for On Demand TV usage and don't routinely monitor whether their set top boxes are in actual operation and connected to their network.

Regardless, the adjudicator has already ruled with all the evidence (from both sides) in front of him. So, without any new and compelling evidence, I can't see any appeal succeeding now.

Avril1991

BoyWithTheBlues wrote: »

Stating the obvious here, but Sky TV runs from satellite and Virgin runs from cable. Two totally different systems, cabling, networks. Couldn't be more different.

If Virgin had been installed, and it was previously a Sky household, an engineer would have had to run through cable from the street & drill through walls, etc. There would be a very distinctive Virgin Media socket. Should be pretty easy to prove that this is not evident in the household.

I have been doing some research since last night, and can now see that you're correct the only way to run VM is through installation, and I now know that this can only be done by an engineer running cables through a "brown box outside a persons property that connects cables running through walls to a white box on the inside of a persons property that would attach cables to a VM box" I never knew this with being a Sky customer myself!

I have just been round to my Grandmothers one bedroomed bottom floor apartment, I have inspected the inside and outside of her entire property and have taken photographic evidence that there is nothing, apart from a Sky dish on the outside of her property! There is no "brown box" no "white box" no "cables" and never has anything been istalled or fitted that would allow my grandparents to receieve the "equipment" and install or run this theirselves! Her phone line is also just plugged into a standard telephone socket that is it.

Thank you everyone for your help, I beleive that this is the evidence I need win my Grandmothers case!

Avril1991

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

Don't you think the CISAS (Communications and Internet Services Adjudication Scheme) adjudicator has already considered all those questions before deciding NOT to uphold the complaint?
Basically, it appears that Virgin's version of events has been accepted over the testimony of the complainant.
Unfortunately , the complainant was not actually there and is stating (without any evidence) that his or her grandfather could not possibly have Virgin TV apparently simply because they have Sky TV.

Like Colin Maybe above, I suspect that there is a indeed a set top TV box associated with the household in question and that it's probably been disconnected and discarded. Virgin will certainly have the serial number of any such equipment.
However, Virgin will only have records of paid for On Demand TV usage and don't routinely monitor whether their set top boxes are in actual operation and connected to their network.

Regardless, the adjudicator has already ruled with all the evidence (from both sides) in front of him. So, without any new and compelling evidence, I can't see any appeal succeeding now.

They have never had any kind of "Equipment" from VM and in my 83 year old Grandmothers one bedroomed, very small bottom floor apartment that she has lived in for 26years that has one very small Television in her living room, and has a SKY BOX running and that has been running since 2002. I know and all my family know my Grandparents have never had, received, installed, ran etc. any kind of VM Television services and I as I have just posted a few minutes ago I wasn't aware before that VM can only be Installed by an Engineer running cables and now I do, I now have all the evidence I need as she has no such thing in or around her entire property.


VM have provided no evidence that my Grandparents received "Equipment" from them, they have only written a response to my claim stating this.

[Deleted User]

Avril1991 wrote: »

I have been doing some research since last night, and can now see that you're correct the only way to run VM is through installation, and I now know that this can only be done by an engineer running cables through a "brown box outside a persons property that connects cables running through walls to a white box on the inside of a persons property that would attach cables to a VM box" I never knew this with being a Sky customer myself!

I have just been round to my Grandmothers one bedroomed bottom floor apartment, I have inspected the inside and outside of her entire property and have taken photographic evidence that there is nothing, apart from a Sky dish on the outside of her property! There is no "brown box" no "white box" no "cables" and never has anything been istalled or fitted that would allow my grandparents to receieve the "equipment" and install or run this theirselves! Her phone line is also just plugged into a standard telephone socket that is it.

Thank you everyone for your help, I beleive that this is the evidence I need win my Grandmothers case!

I'm afraid it doesn't help you in the least as (as far as I'm aware) the VM phone service comes through their infrastructure and cabling.

Avril1991

Colin_Maybe wrote: »

I'm afraid it doesn't help you in the least as (as far as I'm aware) the VM phone service comes through their infrastructure and cabling.

What doesn't help me? that has nothing to do with installation of VM Tv.

Carrot007

Avril1991 wrote: »

What doesn't help me? that has nothing to do with installation of VM Tv.

The TV and phone come through the same cable. So if she has a working phone she should have the ability to get the TV.

mac.d

Colin_Maybe wrote: »

I'm afraid it doesn't help you in the least as (as far as I'm aware) the VM phone service comes through their infrastructure and cabling.

Virgin at very least used to provide an off net phone service. And doing a quick google search finds a document stating:

"We also provide broadband and telephone services to residential customers outside of our cable network via access to other telecommunications networks. This "off-net" offering was rebranded in November 2008 as "Virgin Media National". Our off-net broadband internet services are provided via BT's local access network and unbundled BT exchanges from Cable & Wireless plc, kages are available including broadband service of up to 16Mb. As of December 31, 2008, we had approximately 252,000 broadband subscribers using this service. We also provide fixed line telephone service to off-net customers via BT's local access network. As of December 31, 2008, we provided off-net fixed line telephone service to approximately 105,500 subscribers."

So they could well be providing the OP's grandparents with a telephone service via a standard BT telephone line, without there being any cable/boxes that are needed for them to provide a TV service.

[Deleted User]

Avril1991 wrote: »

There is no "brown box" no "white box" no "cables" and never has anything been istalled or fitted that would allow my grandparents to receieve the "equipment" and install or run this theirselves! Her phone line is also just plugged into a standard telephone socket that is it.

The phone line is connected to the Virgin Media network. Since the VM network also carries broadband and TV, your grandparent(s) were and are capable of receiving ALL Virgin services.

As before, it sounds as if your grandparent arranged for all services at some date and then either removed the cable runs and decoder or simply never bothered to install in the first place. Continuing to pay for all these services, while certainly a waste of money, is hardly the fault of the provider.

The fact is you personally were not there and your grandmother does not know or remember. Any accusations of wrong-doing on Virgin Media's part are therefore simply assumptions

Avril1991 wrote: »

I beleive that this is the evidence I need win my Grandmothers case!

I'm afraid you are introducing no evidence which will not have already been considered by the adjudicator.

mac.d wrote: »

Virgin at very least used to provide an off net phone service.

Correct, but they would not have then charged the OP's now deceased grandparent for the full range of service, of course.

mac.d wrote: »

So they could well be providing the OP's grandparents with a telephone service via a standard BT telephone line, without there being any cable/boxes that are needed for them to provide a TV service.

That could be something worth checking, but I sincerely doubt it will be the case.

Avril1991

mac.d wrote: »

Virgin at very least used to provide an off net phone service. And doing a quick google search finds a document stating:

"We also provide broadband and telephone services to residential customers outside of our cable network via access to other telecommunications networks. This "off-net" offering was rebranded in November 2008 as "Virgin Media National". Our off-net broadband internet services are provided via BT's local access network and unbundled BT exchanges from Cable & Wireless plc, kages are available including broadband service of up to 16Mb. As of December 31, 2008, we had approximately 252,000 broadband subscribers using this service. We also provide fixed line telephone service to off-net customers via BT's local access network. As of December 31, 2008, we provided off-net fixed line telephone service to approximately 105,500 subscribers."

So they could well be providing the OP's grandparents with a telephone service via a standard BT telephone line, without there being any cable/boxes that are needed for them to provide a TV service.

She is supplied her VM telephone service Via the standard BT telephone line. She still has the old BT house phone that she uses for her landline.

Avril1991

Carrot007 wrote: »

The TV and phone come through the same cable. So if she has a working phone she should have the ability to get the TV.

Her phone isn't through cable, its the old BT Telephone Line.