Will My Husband Ever Find Out If His Father Died?

fallen121

My husband fell out with his Mother several years ago and following this falling out she severed contact with our entire family. She and my Father-in-law lived in England, we live in Scotland. My husband also has a younger sister.

When my husband's Mother died of cancer some years later, she asked that my husband not be told and in fact my husband only found out when his Father wrote to my daughter on her birthday some years later to say that her Grandmother had been ill and had died some years previously. I have to say that it was a real shock and perhaps not the best or most sensitive birthday present as she was only about 12 years old at the time. She was very upset.

My Father-in-law is still alive as far as we know but quite elderly. Some years ago he made a will in which he named my husband as Executor and told him this. It is quite probable and possible (given everything that has happened) that my Father-in-Law has made a new will which in all likelihood leaves everything to my husband's sister but I expect we will never know and have no legal means to find out.

What we WOULD be interested to know is whether or not it is possible that my Father-in-law could die and his estate be settled and distributed to my sister-in-law without my husband ever being involved or told.

I doubt very much whether we would have any reasonable claim on the estate, although, as I understand it, unless my husband is specifically excluded in the will or left a token amount to indicate this, this does create a grey area from a legal perspective as it wouldn't make clear whether or not my Father-in-law intended to make some kind of provision for his eldest son, or for his only Grandaughter at least (my sister -in-law is unmarried and without children). I know people in England are free to leave their estate to whoever they wish (notwithstanding a 1975 law which some children have used to contest wills leaving entire estates to animal charities), but it would be quite odd to leave out your eldest son without stating expressly stating why, wouldn't it?

But my question isn't about the complicated question of whether or not to contest a will which may or may not have changed for someone who may or may not have died. We couldn't contest in any case as we'd have no way of knowing if my Father-in-law had died or what the will even said. You have to act within 6 months and you clearly can't do that if you don't know what has happened.

My question is this. On the Probate form, the Executor of the estate (presumably my sister-in-law if the will has been changed) has to provide details of living relatives of the deceased, including children. If she leaves my husband off this, or lists him but doesn't bother to contact him, is there any obligation on any solicitor acting for the estate to tell my husband that his Father has died?

If it is possible for a parent to die and a child to be left out of the will not left anything from the estate and never even be aware of this, why does the Probate form even bother asking this question?

If my Father-in-Law DOES die (and it comes to us all eventually), then this time I would like to be able to tell my daughter in a controlled and sensitive way.

Flugelhorn

fallen121 wrote: »

My question is this. On the Probate form, the Executor of the estate (presumably my sister-in-law if the will has been changed) has to provide details of living relatives of the deceased, including children. If she leaves my husband off this, or lists him but doesn't bother to contact him, is there any obligation on any solicitor acting for the estate to tell my husband that his Father has died?

If it is possible for a parent to die and a child to be left out of the will not left anything from the estate and never even be aware of this, why does the Probate form even bother asking this question?

If my Father-in-Law DOES die (and it comes to us all eventually), then this time I would like to be able to tell my daughter in a controlled and sensitive way.

The section on the probate form includes details of relatives, not entirely clear what they do with it (and not sure why they ask it - maybe more to do with applying for LOA instead, this uses the same forms and requires family details) - as far as I am remember it is only numbers of siblings / aunts / uncles etc.
It is entirely possible that your SIL will deal with the probate herself and there would be no solicitor involved. Even if there was I don't think either your SIL / solicitor or any other executor is required to let people not mentioned in the will, know of the death.

flower77g

Interesting scenario: OP would find out within three months of death if they routinely send this form in once every three months (at a cost of £10 each time; so £40 per annum)



https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/find-a-will-or-probate-document-form-pa1s

hollydays

If a will leaves out children, a solicitor may often get the person to complete a non- legal document stating the reasons s they have not been included in the will, in case the will is challenged.
There may be no reason to make " provision" in any case unless there are exceptional circumstances, as most people support themselves.

fallen121

flower77g wrote: »

Interesting scenario: OP would find out within three months of death if they routinely send this form in once every three months (at a cost of £10 each time; so £40 per annum)



https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/find-a-will-or-probate-document-form-pa1s

Very, very useful as I was not aware of this. Exactly why I came here. Thank you.

Mojisola

flower77g wrote: »

Interesting scenario: OP would find out within three months of death if they routinely send this form in once every three months (at a cost of £10 each time; so £40 per annum)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/find-a-will-or-probate-document-form-pa1s

That will only work if the estate goes to probate.

Flugelhorn

Mojisola wrote: »

That will only work if the estate goes to probate.

also may take some time to apply for probate

fallen121

Further to the above posts, I've now been to the form and it asks for date of death of the deceased. The presumption being that you a) Know for definite that they have died and b) Have a date of death.

The main problem seems to be that if my SIL decides not to tell us if her Dad dies (which is entirely possible) we have very little way of ever finding out.

I've seen other threads where people have asked how to find out if someone has died and the main way seems to be to search local papers or the local Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages. In this case we are talking Skegness and I've been to the website. Without actually visiting the office (which clearly we're not in a position to do on a regular basis) there is an option to request a death certificate, but again, this presumes that you know that someone has died and the approximate date of death.

Another suggestion was to type the deceased person's name into Google. Without actually giving the name we are talking a firstname and surname which is probably even more common that John Smith and fairly likely that in that area with a lot of elderly people there are likely to be quite a few deaths of someone called "John Smith" in any given year.

Quite amazing that my husband can be directly related to his Dad and yet have no rights to find out if he has died or any details of a will in which he was previously named as an executor and beneficiary.

Ms_Chocaholic

I just put in a surname and the year, and it came up with a list of all those people with that surname who had died in that year. You don't have to be precise in terms of an actual date.

You can also click on advanced search and specify an area.

Ms_Chocaholic

I do wonder why your husband is so bothered to find out whether his father has died and when he has died when he has no interest in him when he is alive.

fallen121

I tried for "East Midlands" and it came up with 4,600 deaths of someone with the same name as my FIL. We haven't had any contact for 5 years so it's going to take a while to work through them all. Presumably I could do this on a regular basis and just assume that the most recent ones appear at the top and that the website is accurate. The website I am using searches obituaries in local papers but that assumes my SIL even bothers posting one.