Openreach want to charge for not being able to find a fault

InNeedOfALittleHelp

I called my provider HomeTelecom that sublets via BT in some way to report an intermitent fault with the broadband. They confirmed on the call that there was a fault and done lots of test and I done things my end as requested to see if it could be solved. Still no luck, so engineer booked and had to confirm by email that if they could not find a fault that I may get charged up to £250. I asked on this call that thats not fair if I get charged if the fault is resolved before the engineer gets here. He said not to worry as it is clearly a fault and that they would dispute the charge if there was one. I did not use the net much due to it kicking off here and there it just wound me up so watched a few dvds while I waited. The guy came around and guess what no fault found. So I called the office to make sure that I would not get charged and got the usual, well you did agree to it. I complained and they started to check it all out to see if they would not charge me. I get an email to say they done their checks and they are still going to charge me for a fault that was there before the guy came, but some how magically went when the guy was testing my line in the flat.


So I asked to have a copy of the call recording when I reported the initial fault. They came back with the email reply, with copies of previous 'emails' that showed I agreed to the charge if no fault was found. So I asked 'again' please forward the phone recording/s when I reported the fault that they claim they listened to, to make up their mind that I was going to still have to pay the charge. I am still waiting for the recording. But in the last email I got they did claim that the engineer did in fact do some outside checks to rule out any fault with their network. (how did we not know that those checks did not fix the issue I was having) This was 'before' he entered the property. I would have thought that they would have checked in the property first to see that there 'was' a fault in the first place before messing around outside first !


I now have a charge expected on my account for £180.


Can anyone give me their thoughts or ideas how I can somehow get this overturned. It's really stressful having this when I am living on a shoestring.


tia

System

There is nothing fair about 'pass through' charges. All the ISPs that I have dealt with will not call out an Openreach engineer unless the customer agrees to a pass through charge if Openreach raises one. Did your ISP actually tell you what the fault was that they were reporting to Openreach? Did they ask you to carry out checks to rule out faults in the house for which you are responsible?

If they have followed the correct procedures, then you have no comeback unless your ISP is prepared to stand up to Openreach and provide evidence to refute the bill.

FWiW, in my experience the Openreach engineer will normally come to the property first to run line tests before going to the cabinet. They should, I would have thought, have some idea of where a fault might be before the visit.

unforeseen

I think the OP's problem is that it was an

intermitent fault

and the Openreach engineer tested when there were no symptoms.

InNeedOfALittleHelp

They did ask me to do checks in house first and confirmed there was a fault, but not in my property. All this would be in the call recordings they are now not wanting to send over to me. This is what they can use to overturn the charge which they said on the phone that they would do if it came to that.

Hengus wrote: »

There is nothing fair about 'pass through' charges. All the ISPs that I have dealt with will not call out an Openreach engineer unless the customer agrees to a pass through charge if Openreach raises one. Did your ISP actually tell you what the fault was that they were reporting to Openreach? Did they ask you to carry out checks to rule out faults in the house for which you are responsible?

If they have followed the correct procedures, then you have no comeback unless your ISP is prepared to stand up to Openreach and provide evidence to refute the bill.

FWiW, in my experience the Openreach engineer will normally come to the property first to run line tests before going to the cabinet. They should, I would have thought, have some idea of where a fault might be before the visit.

JJ_Egan

OR simply pass the invoice to the ISP and they are the ones to decide to charge or not .
80% of BT OR houshold call outs are down to internal users wiring . That is chargeable by OR to ISP circa £135 plus.
OP needs to find out where the fault is that is being charged for .Outside OR faults are not charged to the customer .

Retrogamer

I've worked with various ISPs for almost 12 years now and and Openreach can be a suspect with these charges.

I've had customers who had intermittent sync on their broadband every day for weeks. Maybe 10-15 drops per day every day
We send out an Openreach Engineer. The Engineer charges us (the ISP) as said line is testing ok and no fault found
I check the customer's connection and it's fully stable as advised by Openreach.

Common sense tells me they fixed or changed something however as we cannot prove that, we have to pay the engineer call out fee.

InNeedOfALittleHelp

Yes I suspect that I have been charged for something that caused by them to get money out of us.


I have replied to the email multiple times to get a reply as they did not reply until I had repeated the reply 3 times.


They now say that there is a charge to get the recording as this is done by an... wait for it, an external third party!! I said well if you can hear it, send it. in a nutshell. And stating that in their first reply that they said that the engineer had done tests prior to entering the property. I said how do we not know that this fixed the issue!


Waiting for a reply to that one.

Retrogamer wrote: »

I've worked with various ISPs for almost 12 years now and and Openreach can be a suspect with these charges.

I've had customers who had intermittent sync on their broadband every day for weeks. Maybe 10-15 drops per day every day
We send out an Openreach Engineer. The Engineer charges us (the ISP) as said line is testing ok and no fault found
I check the customer's connection and it's fully stable as advised by Openreach.

Common sense tells me they fixed or changed something however as we cannot prove that, we have to pay the engineer call out fee.

[Deleted User]

InNeedOfALittleHelp wrote: »

They now say that there is a charge to get the recording as this is done by an... wait for it, an external third party!! I said well if you can hear it, send it. in a nutshell.

Almost all companies would tell you exactly the same thing.

iniltous

What was the nature of the fault, is the fault resolved or has it returned.
When you report a fault to your provider , they should test the line, if a fault is detected the tester itself gives an indication as to its location, close to or at at your home , at the exchange , or somewhere in between.
If there is no fault detected or if the fault is indicated at the customers property they should give a a warning about potential charges if you proceed with the fault and you request (via your provider) Openreach to visit, this us why they should get you to check at the master socket test port with a known working (preferably) corded phone...even if it's a broadband issue, it should be checked as a phone line ( dialtone, no noise on line etc)
If the 'fault' turns out to either not exist ( fault not found,right when tested) or is on something Openreach are not responsible for, like your own wiring or equipment (router/phone/filters etc) then OR charge your provider for an unneccesary call out,generally the provider charges you if they have been charged by OR, what the provider charged isn't the same amount OR charge them.

It's not likely that Openreach fixed a fault and then visit your home and then book the fault off as no fault or fault in what the end user is responsible for, there is no incentive for the engineer to do this, so if the engineer found no fault , how intermittent is (or was) this fault ?
If you report a fault and before the engineer visits the fault goes away its in your interest to cancel the visit, for example if you were having broadband issues , your provider may have done something at their end to fix the issue, so leaving an Openreach visit active is going to result in a charge , after all if the ISP has fixed it, it was never an OR issue , so why should OR foot the bill for that unneccesary visit.
Perhaps you can give more info on what the 'fault' was, his long it existed , and if it has now disappeared how long since the last occurance

Retrogamer

iniltous wrote: »

What was the nature of the fault, is the
It's not likely that Openreach fixed a fault and then visit your home and then book the fault off as no fault or fault in what the end user is responsible for, there is no incentive for the engineer to do this.

Why is it not likely? I've been working in home broadband technology now for around 12 years and it's a lot more common than you would think.

When the engineer is testing various pairs they will often disconnect them to test, then re-terminate the connection points. If the connection points are loose or corroded then re-terminating them can fix the issue.

Engineers sometimes by mistake or on purpose actually repair faults now and then, then mark the job as "No fault found" but when i speak to the customer i find the engineer has actually found a fault but marked the job incorrectly due to not knowing how to fill in the reports correctly on the JDSU or else by just rushing them.

There's an incentive for Openreach not to find faults. If they find faults, they have to pay for the repairs. If they find faults, fix them but advise the ISP there is no fault found then they can both fix the fault and receive a payment from the ISP also. Then the ISP depending on who it is may or may not charge the customer.

esuhl

Judging by the conversation you say you had, the company assured you that you would not be charged. So you need to get a transcript of the call. I can't remember whether they can still charge you a maximum of £10 for this, or whether the new laws say this must be free.


Then you have the proof needed to reject any such charge.