*sigh* this may take a while

ohdearhowdidthathappen

Obvious areas of improvement are cars (but have covered that in previous posts and no imminent changes planned) and groceries.

We're still pretty rubbish at putting these sums for things like clothes, entertainment etc into pots and sticking to it, definitely something we need to work on.  These are the items that tend to end up on paypal, CC and Next and need paying off each month.

I checked those balances while doing the SOA and they're currently at:
- Next - £334 (£132 to be paid this month, £202 next month)
- Paypal - £1340 (£100 to be paid this month)
-CC - £300 (to be paid on payday)

If we stick our budget and pay our surplus into these accounts, they'll all be cleared by December's pay and our pots will be full so that we don't go down this slippery slope again 

October pay will clear CC and half of Next
November pay will clear rest of Next plus a bit of PP
December pay will clear rest of PP

We have savings in our Xmas pot to cover Christmas, so shouldn't come unstuck there

enthusiasticsaver

I recall some of the entitled things your DD has said in the past and I fully agree that she needs to grow up a bit.  You could say calmly to her that if she was a bit less rude and grabby you would be more inclined to help her.   She is old enough to get a job but does not want one.  How  many children you chose to have is up to you.  She is approaching adulthood but acting like a spoilt teenager. Mine did not  get a choice and they had to take a part time job at  if they wanted money for socialising etc etc.  No different to myself at their age when my dad told me to get a job at 16 and thank my lucky stars I wasn't made to get a paper round at 14 .  I do think some sort of low/ minimum wage job for a year or two  does them no harm, gives them work experience  and gets them to appreciate how hard their parents work to support them and develop a work ethic so exactly the opposite of @sarahsays. As long as that means their education does not suffer of course and inevitably that means less down time for them but it is great experience at managing their time. My girls were definitely not lazy or entitled though so interesting as to why your DD is like that if the others aren't.  From other large families I have known though often the eldest harbors resentment because they have to help with younger children or miss out financially simply because of the expense of having a lot of children so it could be that. That is life though so blaming you for the fact she has to pull her finger out is not on.  How are her grades? 

Drawingaline

My girl is the eldest and occasionally has said how unfair it is to have three brothers and how having two special needs kids means we can never do anything nice as they ruin it. Said out of frustration, but she is adamant she won't be having any kids and I can see why she might feel this way. But her reaction has seemed to be to realise that she needs to earn the money in order to have a different lifestyle to the one she has had growing up. 

I have encouraged both my teens to start part time work at 16, however the current 12yr old may not be able too. We will see what happens over the next few years. 

My teens know that once they have finished college there are the following choices. 

Uni, using money they have saved alongside loan and some money from us. Preferably not staying home

Apprenticeship, probably staying home, no money to us.

Gap year, pay nothing to us, but would need to save save save, and then uni with a lower contribution from us.

Full time employment/benefits, paying proper keep to us/move out. 

We fully expect to have the 12yr old home with us long term, we will have to rethink how this will work with them, but ultimately at 18 I would like them to have employment, either paid or voluntary. 

ohdearhowdidthathappen

enthusiasticsaver said:

I recall some of the entitled things your DD has said in the past and I fully agree that she needs to grow up a bit.  You could say calmly to her that if she was a bit less rude and grabby you would be more inclined to help her.   She is old enough to get a job but does not want one.  How  many children you chose to have is up to you.  She is approaching adulthood but acting like a spoilt teenager. Mine did not  get a choice and they had to take a part time job at  if they wanted money for socialising etc etc.  No different to myself at their age when my dad told me to get a job at 16 and thank my lucky stars I wasn't made to get a paper round at 14 .  I do think some sort of low/ minimum wage job for a year or two  does them no harm, gives them work experience  and gets them to appreciate how hard their parents work to support them and develop a work ethic so exactly the opposite of @sarahsays. As long as that means their education does not suffer of course and inevitably that means less down time for them but it is great experience at managing their time. My girls were definitely not lazy or entitled though so interesting as to why your DD is like that if the others aren't.  From other large families I have known though often the eldest harbors resentment because they have to help with younger children or miss out financially simply because of the expense of having a lot of children so it could be that. That is life though so blaming you for the fact she has to pull her finger out is not on.  How are her grades? 

See, this has always been my take on it.  I had a paper round from 13-16 and then part time job at 16.  DH the same.  Teaches you time management, money management, having to deal with rude customers, having to do what you're told by managers etc, all very good life lessons!

Her grades are good, she got 7-9 in all her GCSEs (A and A* in old money), predicted AAB at A-level.  TBH though, she does minimal studying, she's just naturally smart.

I have no idea why she's so different, the others have never been anything like it.  DS has had a paper round since 13 (he's now 15), DD2 has just started one too.... they ask for things they'd like and if we say 'no', they take it well and save for it themselves.
We don't ask the older siblings to help with the younger ones at all, so don't think it's that. 

Unfortunately for us, her 3 best friends all come from wealthy families and they're all the youngest of 2 siblings.  Their parents are older than us, probably by a good 8-10 years, work full time, probably mortgage free or not far off.  These girls'  life style is different; they all have their own en suites, bigger rooms, clothing allowances, expensive foreign holidays etc etc.  One of them has just been bought a brand new BMW for their 18th.  I think she looks at them and feels that if we'd had 2 children and I worked full time that we could have the same lifestyle and she feels our 'poor' life decisions have impacted her. 

But I've told her numerous times, that her friends' lifestyles aren't the norm, she just doesn't listen or care.

ohdearhowdidthathappen

Drawingaline said:

My girl is the eldest and occasionally has said how unfair it is to have three brothers and how having two special needs kids means we can never do anything nice as they ruin it. Said out of frustration, but she is adamant she won't be having any kids and I can see why she might feel this way. But her reaction has seemed to be to realise that she needs to earn the money in order to have a different lifestyle to the one she has had growing up. 

I have encouraged both my teens to start part time work at 16, however the current 12yr old may not be able too. We will see what happens over the next few years. 

My teens know that once they have finished college there are the following choices. 

Uni, using money they have saved alongside loan and some money from us. Preferably not staying home

Apprenticeship, probably staying home, no money to us.

Gap year, pay nothing to us, but would need to save save save, and then uni with a lower contribution from us.

Full time employment/benefits, paying proper keep to us/move out. 

We fully expect to have the 12yr old home with us long term, we will have to rethink how this will work with them, but ultimately at 18 I would like them to have employment, either paid or voluntary. 

Much as DD whines at me, she adores her 2 little brothers and is very sweet with them, she also gets on fine with eldest DS.  She's mean to my other DD, perhaps a bit of jealousy there for some reason?

The options you've given your teens is along the lines of what we've said to them.  If they're doing an apprenticeship, I wouldn't expect rent, but if they're working I would (unless they were on a gap year and saving for uni).

Definitely trickier if your DC have special needs as expectations need to adjust to their needs.

enthusiasticsaver

ohdearhowdidthathappen said:

enthusiasticsaver said:

I recall some of the entitled things your DD has said in the past and I fully agree that she needs to grow up a bit.  You could say calmly to her that if she was a bit less rude and grabby you would be more inclined to help her.   She is old enough to get a job but does not want one.  How  many children you chose to have is up to you.  She is approaching adulthood but acting like a spoilt teenager. Mine did not  get a choice and they had to take a part time job at  if they wanted money for socialising etc etc.  No different to myself at their age when my dad told me to get a job at 16 and thank my lucky stars I wasn't made to get a paper round at 14 .  I do think some sort of low/ minimum wage job for a year or two  does them no harm, gives them work experience  and gets them to appreciate how hard their parents work to support them and develop a work ethic so exactly the opposite of @sarahsays. As long as that means their education does not suffer of course and inevitably that means less down time for them but it is great experience at managing their time. My girls were definitely not lazy or entitled though so interesting as to why your DD is like that if the others aren't.  From other large families I have known though often the eldest harbors resentment because they have to help with younger children or miss out financially simply because of the expense of having a lot of children so it could be that. That is life though so blaming you for the fact she has to pull her finger out is not on.  How are her grades? 

See, this has always been my take on it.  I had a paper round from 13-16 and then part time job at 16.  DH the same.  Teaches you time management, money management, having to deal with rude customers, having to do what you're told by managers etc, all very good life lessons!

Her grades are good, she got 7-9 in all her GCSEs (A and A* in old money), predicted AAB at A-level.  TBH though, she does minimal studying, she's just naturally smart.

I have no idea why she's so different, the others have never been anything like it.  DS has had a paper round since 13 (he's now 15), DD2 has just started one too.... they ask for things they'd like and if we say 'no', they take it well and save for it themselves.
We don't ask the older siblings to help with the younger ones at all, so don't think it's that. 

Unfortunately for us, her 3 best friends all come from wealthy families and they're all the youngest of 2 siblings.  Their parents are older than us, probably by a good 8-10 years, work full time, probably mortgage free or not far off.  These girls'  life style is different; they all have their own en suites, bigger rooms, clothing allowances, expensive foreign holidays etc etc.  One of them has just been bought a brand new BMW for their 18th.  I think she looks at them and feels that if we'd had 2 children and I worked full time that we could have the same lifestyle and she feels our 'poor' life decisions have impacted her. 

But I've told her numerous times, that her friends' lifestyles aren't the norm, she just doesn't listen or care.

That explains it then.  As you quite rightly say her friends are not the norm and unfortunate that those are the sort of friends she has chosen to hang out with.  I personally don't think their parents have done their kids any favours by bringing them up to expect that sort of lifestyle.  At some point they are going to have to get out and work for a living much as your DD will have to.  

I think if she has good grades and she is smart enough for Uni then giving her good opportunities to study for a degree or career is fair.  Maybe a grown up conversation with her about where she sees her life going and what career she would like to go for would be a good starting point rather than making it all about money.  Maybe work out how much you can afford to give her would at least meet her halfway but make it clear most university students do need to work to help their finances and she will have to as well.  Just because her friends come from wealthy families and maybe don't have to work does not mean she is the same.  I also would not accept rudeness and if she persists in that then I would be tempted to make a stand and say no until she grows up a little and stops being such an entitled little madam.   I would say normally they do all grow up and your ultimate objective is to make her financially independent so getting her on to a good career path is in your interests as well as hers.  Make it clear a gap year does not mean bumming around at home.

Suffolksue

is she applying to university at the moment (for admission Sept 2022 ) or is she year 12 ?

Sunshine_girl2

My two children were in the fortunate position that they qualified for a full maintenance grant and both lived at home in there uni years , otherwise I couldn't have afforded for them to go. However they both had paid work as I couldn't subsidise them in any respect . They have both bought their own cars and paid their own insurance nothing was given to them because of my financial position. However it worked well because they both own their own homes now and have fantastic careers , one in the NHS and one in the Civil Service. 

Your daughter needs to work out her priorities surely she doesn't think she can go to university on fresh air. It is hard for them these days so many peer pressures etc. However I would say my daughter was sometimes rude to me and said hurtful things but she has turned out to be a hardworking person ! Who is now very respectful of her mum. 

ohdearhowdidthathappen

Thanks ES, all very good advice.  It's just exhausting and I don't have the energy for it.  DH reckons she times her rants for when we're knackered and more likely to give in for an easy life.  To be honest, that was probably the case when the little ones were small, she used to time arguments for the evening when she knew they were asleep and if she didn't get what she wanted, she went round slamming doors until she woke them up.  Her behaviour isn't new, the topics she's stropping about just change and her language is getting worse

Hi SS, she's in year 13, applying for 2022.  

ohdearhowdidthathappen

Thanks S_g2.... that's great your children have done so well and that you have a good relationship with them
Shows how expensive it is if they needed to work on top of full grant while living at home.... the whole thing makes me twitch.
You're right, it is hard for them, lots of peer pressure.