Universal credit and inclusive bills in rent

eskimo26

Hi all,

Just been told I need to request from my landlord a breakdown of bills separate from my rent as it is currently an all inclusive figure and they only pay rent.

I told them I don't want my LL knowing i'm claiming housing costs so it's an information governance issue.

But they have neatly stepped around this by saying I have to provide the document and if I don't they will not pay out.

So they are coercing me to share private information with my LL against my wishes.

It was my understanding they had an estimate of average bills they can use in these situations?

The Manager claims they only have an estimate of average rents and my all inclusive rent+bills figure is already below the threshold for rent in this area so they can't use it.

I'm pretty angry tbh. They never see me on time and they book separate appointments 20 mins. apart that overrun. The place is just a mess.

Any help appreciated. Can anyone shed any light on this?

pmlindyloo

As far as I am aware there is no formula for UC as regards working out the amount allocated for bills.

So, it looks like you are going to have to ask the landlord for this information.

Why don't you want the landlord to know that you are receiving universal credit?

Are you concerned that they will try to evict you?

What were your circumstances when you moved in? What kind of accommodation are you living in? Tenancy agreement? Landlord living on premises?

poppy12345

Not telling your LL that you're claiming the housing element of UC could see yourself in all sorts of problems. Not all LL accept those claiming benefits because some insurance polices and mortgage companies won't allow then to rent the property to those claiming benefits.

parkrunner

Seems a very reasonable request to me. As a tenant I'd have wanted to know myself before starting the tenancy anyway. Also it's the same rules under housing benefit, water and electric is included in my rent and I have to supply the council with the run down of charges each time my rent increases.

eskimo26

As far as I am aware there is no formula for UC as regards working out the amount allocated for bills.

So, it looks like you are going to have to ask the landlord for this information.

Why don't you want the landlord to know that you are receiving universal credit?

Are you concerned that they will try to evict you?

What were your circumstances when you moved in? What kind of accommodation are you living in? Tenancy agreement? Landlord living on premises?

His a busy Cardiologist with a family and I'd rather not be giving him ultimatums with deadlines attached tbh.

I had him rush up this week to give me proof of address because the job centre wouldn't accept anything I bought in and they saw my contract then and said nothing about it being all inclusive.

It was mentioned several times. In fact this is now the THIRD meeting so i'm guessing something they missed will come up in the next one too most likely.

I came in as a student and I no longer am. Also there is a guarantor on the property so he could well say enough is enough your deadlines and demands are not reasonable and i'm guaranteed rent from your guarantor anyway so the answers no. What then? His not obligated to do this work by my deadline.

Not telling your LL that you're claiming the housing element of UC could see yourself in all sorts of problems. Not all LL accept those claiming benefits because some insurance polices and mortgage companies won't allow then to rent the property to those claiming benefits.

As far as i'm aware the requirement at the point of taking on the contract is to proof you have the funds to pay and not relying on benefits. After that if you need to make a claim there is no need to inform the LL.

This was in the benefit guidance I read.

Seems a very reasonable request to me. As a tenant I'd have wanted to know myself before starting the tenancy anyway. Also it's the same rules under housing benefit, water and electric is included in my rent and I have to supply the council with the run down of charges each time my rent increases.

I'm already several months into the tenancy so its a change of circumstances.

Its unreasonable for the reasons above but most importantly because what they are asking for doesn't exist.

The contract is inclusive of bills no separation- what they are asking for in reality is for the LL to guess/estimate a magical breakdown of the bills and rent so they have a figure they can work with that their system will accept.

I've also received zero guidance about what they want. I got the impression they want a breakdown of each bill and rent separately but no word on how it's presented (yearly? Monthly? both? Averaged out over the year? Calculations included?).

Every time I asked a question they would repeat the same general thing that they wanted each bill broken down separately with rent separate but not how it was to be presented.

So it's just pot luck I get it right and not have to hassle my LL for the 3rd time.

So I guess wish me luck unless anyone in the know can clarify a general template that will be accepted.

Apologies in advance if you work in this field and are on here giving up your free time to help us. I appreciate that it is equally frustrating for the people on the ground who have no choice but to work with the system in place.

I just think if you can estimate a general rent you can do the same for bills.

tomtom256

What they are asking for is how much the bills are, surely this is something your landlord would know, seeing as he pays them.


Do you rent a room as it seems odd that he had to rush up or is it a bedsit, a shared house?


UC is new for the majority of work coaches as well as customers and housing is something that has never been touched by the DWP previously so things like this will crop up.


All you need is a letter from your landlord stating the rent is x and the bills are y and this should suffice.

huckster

Surely there must be a basic rent amount known and then an allowance on top for any bills. it might not matter to those not on benefits, but for those tenants that move on to Universal Credit, then they need to provide a breakdown.

Universal Credit is a benefit for people who are in work, as well as those not working. There is no reason for there to be any issue, as UC is a benefit that replaces tax credits and housing benefit, as well as Job Seekers, ESA etc. So those who would have received just tax credits previously who then find they need help with housing, as their income has fallen, might need to claim UC.

Inconvenient for your landlord, but this is caused by Government policy, in changing over to UC. If you are a landlord, then you have adapt to any new Government policies. This means showing how much of rent payments is for bills, as UC won't pay these.

eskimo26

tomtom256 wrote: »

What they are asking for is how much the bills are, surely this is something your landlord would know, seeing as he pays them.


Do you rent a room as it seems odd that he had to rush up or is it a bedsit, a shared house?


UC is new for the majority of work coaches as well as customers and housing is something that has never been touched by the DWP previously so things like this will crop up.


All you need is a letter from your landlord stating the rent is x and the bills are y and this should suffice.

Thanks for your help. Yes he is paying the bills but they fluctuate depending on the season so can he guesstimate a reasonable monthly figure? Or does he average it out based on last years bill figures?

I'll ask for it to be templated monthly as that is how the rent figure appears on the contract.

A monthly breakdown of each bill that looks something like this:
Gas: £14
Electric: £16
Water: £8:25
Broadband: £10

Rent: £576:75

and signed or with letterhead?

Also will they accept a copy sent over email that I print out and present because they asked for my rental agreement to be freshly signed...

Cheers.

eskimo26

huckster wrote: »

Surely there must be a basic rent amount known and then an allowance on top for any bills. it might not matter to those not on benefits, but for those tenants that move on to Universal Credit, then they need to provide a breakdown.

Universal Credit is a benefit for people who are in work, as well as those not working. There is no reason for there to be any issue, as UC is a benefit that replaces tax credits and housing benefit, as well as Job Seekers, ESA etc. So those who would have received just tax credits previously who then find they need help with housing, as their income has fallen, might need to claim UC.

Inconvenient for your landlord, but this is caused by Government policy, in changing over to UC. If you are a landlord, then you have adapt to any new Government policies. This means showing how much of rent payments is for bills, as UC won't pay these.

But LL's are not obligated to jump through these hoops. I seem to have an LL who is a genuinely reasonable guy but I can see people being made homeless by LL's who refuse to provide the breakdown.

Also it is always the most vulnerable who for one reason or another need advocates to help run their affairs/ have no support network etc. that suffer first. This is just another way for them to fall through the safety net. Why not provide a form for the LL to fill out or some clear guidance or just do what they've done with rents and draw up a table of average bills to work off?

I realise it looks like a benign request on the surface but it will lead to homelessness for vulnerable people. Maybe not in figures that matter to most people but imo even one case is to many when it is preventable.

[Deleted User]

eskimo26 wrote: »

Thanks for your help. Yes he is paying the bills but they fluctuate depending on the season so can he guesstimate a reasonable monthly figure? Or does he average it out based on last years bill figures?

I'll ask for it to be templated monthly as that is how the rent figure appears on the contract.

A monthly breakdown of each bill that looks something like this:
Gas: £14
Electric: £16
Water: £8:25
Broadband: £10

Rent: £576:75

and signed or with letterhead?

Also will they accept a copy sent over email that I print out and present because they asked for my rental agreement to be freshly signed...

Cheers.

£30 a month for gas AND electric seems extremely low, as does £96 a year for water and you can't have broadband without a landline so ditto £10, I'm afraid it is now as it always has been that if you want the benefit you provide ALL the information they request.
Sorry I know thats not what you want to hear

eskimo26

venison wrote: »

£30 a month for gas AND electric seems extremely low, as does £96 a year for water and you can't have broadband without a landline so ditto £10, I'm afraid it is now as it always has been that if you want the benefit you provide ALL the information they request.
Sorry I know thats not what you want to hear

Ok i'm not planning to make it up i'm not stupid. I have a DBS certificate to protect and i'm not about to commit fraud.

What I was asking in the post is whether that would be a good template to recommend my LL? It was just an example to confirm it had all the information they wanted.

So you can ignore the figures themselves

I will contact my LL tomorrow but his not going to be impressed. I know I wouldn't be.