If there is a second referendum ...

Herzlos

Pj1981 wrote: »

The NHS is another thing, the stress its under because of foriegners is huge, no matter what they say, waiting 3 weeks for a doctors appointment? !!!!!!?.

That's because of chronic underfunding, because the current government wants to dissolve it.

I don't know about your local doctors, but mine has a 3 week wait yet any time I'm in the waiting room is 90% native pensioners. You're more likely to see a foreigner working there than visiting.

Arklight

Herzlos wrote: »

That's because of chronic underfunding, because the current government wants to dissolve it.

I don't know about your local doctors, but mine has a 3 week wait yet any time I'm in the waiting room is 90% native pensioners. You're more likely to see a foreigner working there than visiting.

The biggest doctor surgery in my town shut because they couldn't recruit enough GPs. It looked after thousands of patients. Now all the others are over capacity. You can't book appointments in the future at all without a reason, and then you will wait weeks.

The only alternative is a same day emergency appointment if you call up exactly on the dot of 8.00am. Doing this I am greeted by a 2 minute recorded appeal from the practice manager to hang up and deal with my issues some other way, as they are so short staffed. They have a note on their door saying they can't recruit GPs and are also at risk of closure.

Miss that 8.00am one minute window and you've had it. Sometimes even if you make it you get thrown out of the call tree and the slots have all gone by the time you can get back into the automated system. The last time I phoned and spoke to a receptionist, went through all my stuff and asked, "What am I supposed to do? I call every day. I can't get an appointment on the day and you won't let me book one in advance."

Because of the area I live in, the surgery is almost entirely filled with white, wealthy, Tory and UKIP voting pensioners. A lot of them are starting to consider it their right to be very rude to the (blameless) staff who are much more patient than I would be with them.

I was waiting in the (long) queue a few walked in off the street,pushed to the front, made a scene and demanded to see the emergency doctor, as they didn't understand the booking system and couldn't use it. As far as they are concerned, if it's difficult to make an appointment they no longer need to bother.

Maybe they'll remember that next time they are at the ballot box. Or more likely they'll just decide immigration is to blame for everything and vote UKIP or our incumbent septuagenarian Tory perma-MP again (incidentally a man who wouldn't go near an NHS hospital or a state run school if his life depended on it.)

BobQ

Pj1981 wrote: »

Our standard of living is lowering to accommodate for this uniformed standard across europe.if things were that bad in the country they come from, surely coming here is a massive improvement in terms of standards etc.. but its at our expense.The NHS is another thing, the stress its under because of foriegners is huge, no matter what they say, waiting 3 weeks for a doctors appointment? !!!!!!? Ease immigration, ease stress on our public services. If not, get a grip on the free movement of people until we can police it properly. Tell the french to pipe down and leave our fish alone. Fair play to May for having the balls to try sort this out, but i just wish they were bigger. MPs should not be in opposition, but working together on issues like this. But whatever, nothings going to be done about any of this, and il be forced to sit back whilst the dilution of our once 'Great' Britain is complete, and then il be an old angry man who has a grudge against everyone and everything. Im far from 'racist' , but im getting nearer by the day. Thanks everyone.

Uniformity makes it easier to travel and work in the EU

Immigration generally enhances the nation by providing more tax revenue to pay for essential services.

The NHS is under stress through lack of investment, it relies on immigrants to staff the NHS because we do not train enough staff to resource the NHS.

Evidence is that immigrants are net contributors to the economy. They are more likely to be employed, more likely to pay taxes and less likely to use the NHS

You claim not to be a racist but you have nothing positive to say about the UK apart from an unevidenced belief that whatever the problem it is due to immigrants.

My guess is that many of those people you label as "immigrants" were born in the UK. Obviously you do not notice white people.

BobQ

Pj1981 wrote: »

This whole thing is a joke.This , in my opinion, was only the result of years of failure to address immigration for fear of being branded racist by government.They say that WE hugely overestimate the number of migrants, yet they have no clue how many there are.If i use my town as a way to work this out , the numbers are underestimated.In alot of workplaces, the majority of workers are foriegn.This has become a health and safety risk. Communication has become a problem as there are now more barriers , no matter how good the english is.There is many non english speaking workers, yet all safety signs etc.. are only written in english.I think all workers need to be identifiable by the level of understanding they have of any english spoken instuction i may give them.All you hear is foriegn language in a lot of places, so its time to address the sensitive issue of making it mandatory to speak english to a minimum standard in the workplace. Next thing, the standard of driving on the roads is a disgrace.And this is a result of foriegn drivers.The standard on foriegn roads can vary widely to our own.Yet they can drive on the license they have gained from below standard tests.This is putting everyones lives in danger, surely? Its not just the foriegners, when was the last time you seen a policeman pull over a car for having a light out?And what about the idiots who think its cool to drive around with fog lights on all the time? This is dangerous yet goes unpunished.This is turned into a rant i know but its frustrating. If there is another vote, then im all for marching down to london and making my anger known , regardless of how id vote. And who is giving Tony Blair the time to express his opinion? That clown should be locked up for his lying over the years, and for his part in this mess.Of course more migrants working here is better for the economy, because its more taxes. But is it worth the damage its doing to society? Europe is trying to make everybody equal.but

Now as I read the above diatribe, you blame foreigners for poor UK driving standards, lack of health and safety and damaging UK society and then in continuing piece of bile the NHS. I do wonder if these vitriolic comments are trolling but I give you the benefit of the doubt on that. But you may perhaps see why I look at your words with disbelief - the notion that only foreigners use fog lights badly (while you of course are such a perfect driver who has never forgotten to switch yours off?) for example.

I do agree that anyone living in our country should have a basic level of English speaking. Unfortunately some of the indigenous population are not shining examples. One of your inarticulate fellow travellers was on LBC this morning. He too thought immigration and foreigners were to blame for all our national ills. His take on the refugees crossing the Channel in boats was that they should all be allowed to drown and we should not waste time rescuing them. He then turned to legal immigrants with a similar rant to yours.

When will you realise that the problems of this country are due to personal,corporate and government debt and a decade of austerity while a small part of the population has done very well at the expense of the rest?

Herzlos

Arklight wrote: »

The biggest doctor surgery in my town shut because they couldn't recruit enough GPs. It looked after thousands of patients. Now all the others are over capacity. You can't book appointments in the future at all without a reason, and then you will wait weeks.

The only alternative is a same day emergency appointment if you call up exactly on the dot of 8.00am. Doing this I am greeted by a 2 minute recorded appeal from the practice manager to hang up and deal with my issues some other way, as they are so short staffed. They have a note on their door saying they can't recruit GPs and are also at risk of closure.

Miss that 8.00am one minute window and you've had it. Sometimes even if you make it you get thrown out of the call tree and the slots have all gone by the time you can get back into the automated system. The last time I phoned and spoke to a receptionist, went through all my stuff and asked, "What am I supposed to do? I call every day. I can't get an appointment on the day and you won't let me book one in advance."

Because of the area I live in, the surgery is almost entirely filled with white, wealthy, Tory and UKIP voting pensioners. A lot of them are starting to consider it their right to be very rude to the (blameless) staff who are much more patient than I would be with them.

I was waiting in the (long) queue a few walked in off the street,pushed to the front, made a scene and demanded to see the emergency doctor, as they didn't understand the booking system and couldn't use it. As far as they are concerned, if it's difficult to make an appointment they no longer need to bother.

Maybe they'll remember that next time they are at the ballot box. Or more likely they'll just decide immigration is to blame for everything and vote UKIP or our incumbent septuagenarian Tory perma-MP again (incidentally a man who wouldn't go near an NHS hospital or a state run school if his life depended on it.)

Sounds like you'll be ripe for the hybrid public/private service, where you've got no chance of a free appointment but any you want at £40 a pop.

Up in the socialist hellhole that is Scotland, with a government that wants an nhs, we have a walk in system; if you're booked in by 10:30 you'll be seen. Minimum waiting time is 2 hours though even if you get there for it opening (because people queue for an hour and a half upwards to get in). It's terrible, but still so much better than you guys get it.

kabayiri

BobQ wrote: »

...
Immigration generally enhances the nation by providing more tax revenue to pay for essential services.
...

...and, when outside of the EU we can import cheaper migrants and lower business costs. The 2 food production businesses which I personally know about spend a big chunk of their overheads on labour.

More profitable business will free up more money for infrastructure.

Obviously, we need to ditch the NMW, but that's just a matter of time.

HHarry

BobQ wrote: »

Evidence is that immigrants are net contributors to the economy. They are more likely to be employed, more likely to pay taxes and less likely to use the NHS.

I'm happy to accept that evidence, but there needs to ba an ackowledgment that we are always working in arrears. On day 1 they have immediate access to the NHS, etc but have made no contribution to those services.

And there must be instances where the contribution made by those on the lowest wages, such as seasonal fruit pickers, may takes years to equal the services available.

BobQ

kabayiri wrote: »

...and, when outside of the EU we can import cheaper migrants and lower business costs. The 2 food production businesses which I personally know about spend a big chunk of their overheads on labour.

Which we could have done inside the EU as well as out.

More profitable business will free up more money for infrastructure.

Obviously, we need to ditch the NMW, but that's just a matter of time.

Yes the NMW must be so infuriating for those managing businesses. They need to understand that it society (ie Government) that should decide on the NMW. But thank you for confirming the need to increase poverty after Brexit.

badgerhead

Anyone born in a hospital in the UK is in "arrears" on Day 1.

BobQ

HHarry wrote: »

I'm happy to accept that evidence, but there needs to ba an ackowledgment that we are always working in arrears. On day 1 they have immediate access to the NHS, etc but have made no contribution to those services.

And there must be instances where the contribution made by those on the lowest wages, such as seasonal fruit pickers, may takes years to equal the services available.

It is not as simple as that. First anyone coming from the EEA at present is covered by the NHS. So are people from specific countries (eg Australia) But that is a reciprocal arrangement that benefits UK nationals too.

Second anyone coming from a non EEA country only gets free NHS cover if they have an indefinite leave to remain. Someone coming for over 6 months is only covered if they pay a surcharge.For under 6 months they need insurance or must pay for their treatment.