If there is a second referendum ...

lisyloo

Of course, remainers will always say anything bad because of Brexit, anything good because we have not left yet

and some people will tar everyone with the same brush

Carl31

lisyloo wrote: »

Because there were a lot of lies (on both sides)

I hate this point

For it to be valid, you would need to prove that every vote in that election was influenced directly as a result of these "lies", and prove that they were in fact lies.

I think the majority of voters had their minds made up about the situation before the referendum was even announced

lisyloo

For it to be valid, you would need to prove that every vote in that election was influenced directly as a result of these "lies",

I get that you hate it but surely you'd only have to prove it swung the vote i.e prove that 2% (net) were influenced rather than every single vote was influenced.

I think the majority of voters had their minds made up about the situation before the referendum was even announced

I don't. I think some were unsure how to vote and I know for a fact that some who felt they have no stake thought they were sticking two fingers up to the establishment.


I get that there's strong feeling on honouring the first referendum.
I wonder what the %s are of those who feel we should honour the first vs those who want a second?

andrewf75

Carl31 wrote: »

I hate this point

For it to be valid, you would need to prove that every vote in that election was influenced directly as a result of these "lies", and prove that they were in fact lies.

I think the majority of voters had their minds made up about the situation before the referendum was even announced

I agree, I don’t think the lies of the campaign influenced anyone. The reality is the leave campaign began decades ago so with that head start its hardly surprising it won.

Each side has their own version of the truth.

Filo25

andrewf75 wrote: »

I agree, I don’t think the lies of the campaign influenced anyone. The reality is the leave campaign began decades ago so with that head start its hardly surprising it won.

Each side has their own version of the truth.

Hard to prove either way, certainly the campaign itself influenced people though Polls swing significantly to Leave over the course of the campaign, so not sure it is as simple as everyone had made their mind up before the campaign had started.

kabayiri

andrewf75 wrote: »

I agree, I don’t think the lies of the campaign influenced anyone. The reality is the leave campaign began decades ago so with that head start its hardly surprising it won.

Each side has their own version of the truth.

If you really want to know if "lies" influenced the decision, then you need to ask the voters supplementary Qs, like :

- did you vote on local/national factors?
- did migration influence your vote?

etc

As it stands, the question was just a statement of intent, do you want to leave/remain in the club.

It didn't even assume that you had valid reasons for staying/leaving.

We do this all the time, btw. We leave one job for another, without truly knowing if it will work out.

The likes of Woodrow Wilson drew up new national boundaries after WW1. They didn't know if these would work either.

Brexit is just not a predictable science.

Herzlos

For those that are opposed to a 2nd referendum, does that mean you promise to not complain about whatever deal we get as long as it satisfies "leave the EU"?

The way I see it; almost no-one is going to be happy with the outcome, Nd presumably the point of democracy is to allow a country to change it's mind if noone is going to be happy?
Since we know almost no-one will be happy; do we need to wait until we've left and it's irreversible?

Filo25

Herzlos wrote: »

For those that are opposed to a 2nd referendum, does that mean you promise to not complain about whatever deal we get as long as it satisfies "leave the EU"?

The way I see it; almost no-one is going to be happy with the outcome, Nd presumably the point of democracy is to allow a country to change it's mind if noone is going to be happy?
Since we know almost no-one will be happy; do we need to wait until we've left and it's irreversible?

Sort of why I can see an attraction to having a referendum from a politician's point of view.

If all outcomes are likely to be unpopular then kick it back to the people and let them decide, at least it stops them blaming politicians for whichever unpopular option is chosen.

Unfortunately that option is equally unpopular at present so doesn't really resolve the politician's problem!

Thrugelmir

lisyloo wrote: »

I get that there's strong feeling on honouring the first referendum.
I wonder what the %s are of those who feel we should honour the first vs those who want a second?

If the 2nd is again leave. Yet the EU refuse to amend the terms of their offer. The only option is a hard Brexit. Only JC lives in a fantasy world of renegotiation as if the EU are going to bow down in front of him.

Filo25

Thrugelmir wrote: »

If the 2nd is again leave. Yet the EU refuse to amend the terms of their offer. The only option is a hard Brexit. Only JC lives in a fantasy world of renegotiation as if the EU are going to bow down in front of him.

If Parliamentary numbers weren't as they are, the easiest solution which would please Leavers would have been to have an NI only backstop (which would have been more of a permanent solution than a backstop), and a negotiated FTA for rUK.

NI would vote for the backstop as well I suspect even though the DUP would hate it..