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If there is a second referendum ...

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  • Theophile wrote: »
    Here we go again with that same old delusion that a no deal brexit means not having to pay the divorce settlement.

    The divorce settlement is to cover liabilities, pensions, commitments we already signed up to, etc...

    The divorce settlement is not a payment to buy as any kind of deal with the EU.

    I hope that's clear now.
    It's not, because you're wrong.
    From only recently: "Brexit news latest: PM could refuse to sign £39 billion 'divorce' settlement with EU if it fails to give Britain 'precise' trade deal"
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-pm-could-refuse-to-sign-39-billion-divorce-settlement-with-eu-if-it-fails-to-give-a3956446.html

    I hope that's clear for you now. :p
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 15,843 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    It's not, because you're wrong.
    From only recently: "Brexit news latest: PM could refuse to sign £39 billion 'divorce' settlement with EU if it fails to give Britain 'precise' trade deal"
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-pm-could-refuse-to-sign-39-billion-divorce-settlement-with-eu-if-it-fails-to-give-a3956446.html

    I hope that's clear for you now. :p


    May threatening to not pay it doesn't mean she has any basis for not paying it. It sounds like another attempt to appease the Brexiteers and make it look like she's in some sort of control over the situation.
  • Lungboy
    Lungboy Posts: 1,953 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts
    It's not, because you're wrong.
    From only recently: "Brexit news latest: PM could refuse to sign £39 billion 'divorce' settlement with EU if it fails to give Britain 'precise' trade deal"
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-pm-could-refuse-to-sign-39-billion-divorce-settlement-with-eu-if-it-fails-to-give-a3956446.html

    I hope that's clear for you now. :p

    That's from October and May has stated many times since then that we have to and will pay what we owe.
  • Herzlos wrote: »
    May threatening to not pay it doesn't mean she has any basis for not paying it. It sounds like another attempt to appease the Brexiteers and make it look like she's in some sort of control over the situation.
    You do know that until any deal is signed there is no binding agreement to pay anything, don't you? Others have already provided examples of where the EU owes the UK, & as I'm sure you realise there are more examples too.
    Of course if you & your fellow enthEUsiasts want to pay them out of your own pockets and ignore what they owe us, go ahead. But if I'm asked my response will include the word "off".
  • A_Pandiculation
    A_Pandiculation Posts: 116 Forumite
    edited 6 December 2018 at 2:07PM
    Lungboy wrote: »
    That's from October and May has stated many times since then that we have to and will pay what we owe.
    IF we get a deal. ;)

    "The divorce bill is not binding until parliament approves the withdrawal agreement."
    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/
  • movilogo
    movilogo Posts: 3,235 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    If there is 2nd referendum, then there must be 3rd in case people change mind again.

    Then 4th, 5th etc. every few years?

    Or, no further referendum if Remain wins?

    If remain wins on 2nd ref, why the 1st ref result is not valid?

    If Remainers can't accept Leave win, why would Leavers accept a Remain win?
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
  • lisyloo
    lisyloo Posts: 30,077 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    why the 1st ref result is not valid?


    Because there were a lot of lies (on both sides) and we know a great deal more now. For example your average person didn't appreciate the effect on medicines and a hundre other things.

    If there is 2nd referendum, then there must be 3rd in case people change mind again.


    Why can't we agree the rules IN ADVANCE this time? and stick to them?

    If Remainers can't accept Leave win, why would Leavers accept a Remain win?


    Because we now have a much better idea of what we are voting for whereas late time most people didn't have a clue.
  • ben501
    ben501 Posts: 668 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper
    lisyloo wrote: »
    we know a great deal more now.
    And there is still a great deal that we don't know, and may not know for a long time yet.

    What happens if some significant (which will of course depend on your point of view) matter comes to light that wasn't disclosed at the time of said referendum. Does that warrant referendum#3? May be something like the EU army that won't/may/is going to happen, depending on your news source, but certainly wasn't at the time of the referendum.




    lisyloo wrote: »
    Why can't we agree the rules IN ADVANCE this time? and stick to them?
    We knew the rules in advance last time (The then PM said that the decision would be honoured) Why should this time be different? I don't think adding 'No Backsies' to the voting form would make it any more unchallengeable than the first one.
  • movilogo
    movilogo Posts: 3,235 Forumite
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    Because there were a lot of lies (on both sides)

    In elections all parties lie, yet results are still valid. How come?

    Fine with 2nd ref, but then make it happening every 5 years - like elections. Include an additional questionaire with every GE.

    None of the gloomy Brexit forecasts matierialized. Of course, remainers will always say anything bad because of Brexit, anything good because we have not left yet :D
    Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.
  • lisyloo
    lisyloo Posts: 30,077 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    All very good points ben501.


    I would still be pro another referendum as I think most interested parties have had their chance to air their greivances e.g. scottish, irish, fishermen, business in general, pharmacists, health professionals, the public side of national security, fruit picker employers, border control, farmers, universities, conservationists etc. etc.


    We also know a lot more about what kind of deal we can acheive.


    But I totally accept your points.
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