If there is a second referendum ...

Theophile

cogito wrote: »

Oh, I dunno. Most people with an IQ in double figures understand the difference between leave and remain. It really isn't that difficult.

Ok, Norway then, with or without the '+'

We will have left the EU, and there is supposedly a majority for it in parliament. All sorted.

phillw

cogito wrote: »

Most people with an IQ in double figures understand the difference between leave and remain.

They think they do, but they are wrong.

We can leave the EU but stay in the customs union and single market.

If you want leave with no deal and trade on WTO terms, then you're unlikely to get any of the sane MPs to commit political suicide by trying to deliver that. The voters won't remember that they tied the hands of the politicians when the country goes bankrupt.

BLB53 wrote: »

So what if 'remain' secured a narrow majority of the votes next time - does that settle the issue...no chance.

It could. Most people didn't vote to leave because they wanted to get out of the EU, they did it because they thought it would make their lives better.

If we remained in the EU and got rid of the Conservatives (which are the real cause of the problems in the UK) then over time the majority of leavers would accept that they were wrong.

At the moment there is too much fighting going on for anyone to do anything constructive, which is why we should halt brexit

All of the problems that caused people to vote brexit, will actually get worse post brexit. What do we do in five years time when they find out they were lied to and their only protection came from the EU which they were conned into voting out of?

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

Oh, I dunno. Most people with an IQ in double figures understand the difference between leave and remain. It really isn't that difficult.

But they don't. Is Norway in or out? Turkey? Switzerland?

Mays deal satisfies leaving, as does everything between that and going full North Korea.

Leaving is so vague that everyone has a different idea of what it means and thus most will be unhappy when their specific version doesn't happen.

So May can do whatever she wants if she can claim it leaves. Taking it at face value, the cleanest way to leave is WTO but I don't think many people voted for that whilst understanding the implications. People were upset enough that Brexit made their holiday to Spain more expensive because of the exchange rate. How happy will they be about needing a visa waiver, travel insurance losing mobile roaming, waiting longer in airports and so on. They'll get cheaper duty free, though, for the single box of fags they can bring in.

MobileSaver

ukcarper wrote: »

nobody I know who voted leave has changed their mind.

I have a sneaking suspicion that many vocal Leavers are still sticking to Leave in public to save face but in private, when it comes down to an actual second referendum, have every intention of voting Remain now that they've realised what a mess Brexit has become.

Thrugelmir

MobileSaver wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion that many vocal Leavers are still sticking to Leave in public to save face but in private, when it comes down to an actual second referendum, have every intention of voting Remain now that they've realised what a mess Brexit has become.

I've a feeling that people are fed up with the whole matter. Now just want to get on with it. With a crisis looming for the NHS this winter. Will be a timely reminder as to how the growth in population is unsustainable at current rates. Yet the EU has little concern. As not their problem.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I've a feeling that people are fed up with the whole matter. Now just want to get on with it. With a crisis looming for the NHS this winter. Will be a timely reminder as to how the growth in population is unsustainable at current rates. Yet the EU has little concern. As not their problem.

Nobody has been able to square the problem of massive increases in population alongside years of extended austerity.

I'm not even sure if the government understand the problems this creates.

We are turning into the low quality; low productivity; sweatshop of the EU, and the politicians just can not see it.

Voting to Remain will change absolutely nothing. It just means a long painful decline within the EU.

ukcarper

MobileSaver wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion that many vocal Leavers are still sticking to Leave in public to save face but in private, when it comes down to an actual second referendum, have every intention of voting Remain now that they've realised what a mess Brexit has become.

There not vocal leavers it sounds to me like you are still in that bubble that MPs were in in 2015 opinion polls haven't changed greatly.

MobileSaver

Thrugelmir wrote: »

With a crisis looming for the NHS this winter.

There have been reports of a NHS winter crisis every year for as long as I can remember. Much like the housing "crisis", emotive words get used so often and so blithely that many people just tune them out these days.

ukcarper wrote: »

There not vocal leavers it sounds to me like you are still in that bubble that MPs were in in 2015 opinion polls haven't changed greatly.

Well let's all push to have the second referendum sooner rather than later and we can find out which one of us is right.

phillw

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I've a feeling that people are fed up with the whole matter. Now just want to get on with it. With a crisis looming for the NHS this winter. Will be a timely reminder as to how the growth in population is unsustainable at current rates. Yet the EU has little concern. As not their problem.

The NHS is being propped up by immigrants, your thought process is completely and utterly messed up.

Other countries in the EU fund their health systems more than we do, they have better health systems than we do.

The problem isn't the EU, it's the conservative government that have been systematically trying to destroy the NHS since they failed to prevent it being created.

kabayiri wrote: »

Nobody has been able to square the problem of massive increases in population alongside years of extended austerity.

I'm not even sure if the government understand the problems this creates.

We are turning into the low quality; low productivity; sweatshop of the EU, and the politicians just can not see it.

Voting to Remain will change absolutely nothing. It just means a long painful decline within the EU.

One of the reasons the UK left was so the government could get rid of the working time directive. The conservatives have been fighting that for years and will get rid of it the instant they can. Once out of the EU you will see us really turn into a sweat shop.

The EU were looking like they were going to make the UK government do something about zero hours contracts, that was probably the last straw. We had to get out.

Why you specifically voted out is irrelevant, it's the elite that paid for the misinformation that you now believe that will call the shots. You didn't take back control, you took it from a democratically elected organisation and gave it to sociopaths.

ukcarper

MobileSaver wrote: »

There have been reports of a NHS winter crisis every year for as long as I can remember. Much like the housing "crisis", emotive words get used so often and so blithely that many people just tune them out these days.



Well let's all push to have the second referendum sooner rather than later and we can find out which one of us is right.

I really don't think a second referendum will solve anything there will not be a large majority for anything and it will only compound existing problems. The Jeanie was let out of bottle in 2016 and it's going to be very difficult if not impossible to get it back in.