If there is a second referendum ...

LHW99

The point you are so spectacularly missing is that the French blame their own government for French problems, rather than someone else's.

Maybe, maybe not........

"Macron's view of a grander Europe, and his drive to build up the Franco-German axis, has also added to the mounting anger of the rural poor. They see his 'grand projet' as yet another symbol of how the European Union works for the ruling class and not them."
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/comment/article-6472527/MAGGIE-PAGANO-EU-accept-needs-head-Specsavers-new-prescription.html

Zero_Gravitas

cogito wrote: »

That's what happens when remainers are left to run the negotiations. The so called Withdrawal Agreement is a travesty of what the majority voted for. But of course, the government thinks it knows what’s best for us and anyone who thinks otherwise is thick.

It’s probably a perfect reflection of what was voted for - it’ll leave us about 52% out and 48% in 🙂...

And predictably nobody will be happy...

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

That's what happens when remainers are left to run the negotiations. The so called Withdrawal Agreement is a travesty of what the majority voted for. But of course, the government thinks it knows what’s best for us and anyone who thinks otherwise is thick.

Wasn't Davis a leaver and meant to be leading the brexit negotiations until it turns out he spent a year and a half doing nothing?
Where are the other Leavers stepping forward to get involved or help out?
Mogg has been sniping from the airlines without doing anything useful, Johnson is only a Leaves when it suits him and contributed nothing. Farage went into hiding.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

Wasn't Davis a leaver and meant to be leading the brexit negotiations until it turns out he spent a year and a half doing nothing?
Where are the other Leavers stepping forward to get involved or help out?
Mogg has been sniping from the airlines without doing anything useful, Johnson is only a Leaves when it suits him and contributed nothing. Farage went into hiding.

Davis did as much as anyone could given that May wouldn't let him do his job. Johnson was foreign secretary and was one of the few ministers honourable enough to resign when it was clear that May wasn't delivering what she promised. Mogg's a backbencher and Farage is in no position to do anything and never has been. Which other leavers would you expect to step forward and what would you expect them to contribute?

Herzlos

Davis could have visited Brussels more than (4?) times and produce some sort of actual proposals.

Johnson wrote paper articles both for and against Brexit. He only jumped into team Leave as he thought it'd help his career, just as he quit (but refused to leave his accomodation) because he didn't want to be associated with the disaster.

Farage made a big deal about hanging around to make sure the government did their job and then didnt.

Mogg could still be making proposals from the back bench, and given how desperate May is for cabinet members I'm sure he could get a cabinet position if he asked (though I suspect he's been asked and declined a few times).

What other brexiteers should be given a chance to fix things?

Arklight

Brexiteers are silent with suggestions, because they have none, because the referendum question was absurd.

Asking "Shall we leave Europe?" Made as much sense as asking, "Shall we stop using electricity?"

There may be a way to adapt to not using electricity, we may even be better off in the long run not using electricity, but there are absolutely no directions in that question leading to how to get there.

And that's all Brexit is - let's not do something. Even though there is no obvious way to do so without turning the clock back decades.

Arklight

LHW99 wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not........

"Macron's view of a grander Europe, and his drive to build up the Franco-German axis, has also added to the mounting anger of the rural poor. They see his 'grand projet' as yet another symbol of how the European Union works for the ruling class and not them."
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/comment/article-6472527/MAGGIE-PAGANO-EU-accept-needs-head-Specsavers-new-prescription.html

Capitalism works for the ruling class and not the poor. If it didn't no one would be poor. I completely agree with the French for protesting but if they think leaving the EU will make any difference they are going to be disappointed.

The fact that millions of people voted for Brexit one day, apparently as a blow for the ordinary person, then went out and voted for the Tories, a political party established to represent the landed gentry, the next - shows how bottle-necked any chance of real change is.

THE_Terry_Urr

Arklight wrote: »

The point you are so spectacularly missing is that the French blame their own government for French problems, rather than someone else's.

So not really like Brexiteers at all then.

Like those joining in in Belgium?
:wall:
It looks like you're the one spectacularly missing because France; Belgium; Italy; Hungary; Switzerland (who aren't in the EU) arr all showing their displeasure with the EU.
Keep up the hatred though, it's entertaining for the amusement factor alone.

THE_Terry_Urr

Arklight wrote: »

Capitalism works for the ruling class and not the poor. If it didn't no one would be poor. I completely agree with the French for protesting but if they think leaving the EU will make any difference they are going to be disappointed.

The fact that millions of people voted for Brexit one day, apparently as a blow for the ordinary person, then went out and voted for the Tories, a political party established to represent the landed gentry, the next - shows how bottle-necked any chance of real change is.

Very naive and if you really believe that please show us a country without capitalism that has no poor?

Oh and the millions of people didn't have the choice of a Brexit party, did they? Just the usual lot and even then they (very sensibly) chose the lesser of evils.

THE_Terry_Urr

The Foreign Secretary articulates what many have said for some time; a second referendum could lead to civil unrest.

“
Mr Hunt warned: “If we were, for example, to have another referendum overturn the results of the first referendum — let’s say the results were exactly reversed so that this time it was 48 per cent Leave, 52 per cent Remain. You’d have 48 per cent of the country who had voted to Leave twice. They would be incredibly angry and I wouldn’t rule out real social instability in this country.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-red-box-podcast-jeremy-hunt-on-brexit-and-riots-rfrmg3rvx