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If there is a second referendum ...
Comments
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Given the way the UK is negotiating with EU it is only people without a common sense will ever believe UK will not lose its rebate when rejoining EU.
The UK doesn't have to rejoin the EU - we haven't left - so no negotiating required to stay in.How come Switzerland a much smaller country and less powerful could get a better deal than UK ?
Because they didn't have Theresa May's stupid red lines.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Malthusian wrote: »Which "we" would have if the vote had gone the other way in 2016.
Ever closer union. You can ignore it but you can't escape it.
We'll only lose our veto if we choose to give it up. There's no route to the EU stealing it from us.0 -
Just off the top of my head the UK (we are after all still in, and would be in this hypothetical scenario where we are forced into ever closer integration), Italy, and a fair proportion of the Nordics and Eastern Europe wouldn't be too eager to go down that path.
The discussion is more about a two speed Europe. That's Macron's and Juncker's vision and no doubt Barniers.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »The UK doesn't have to rejoin the EU - we haven't left - so no negotiating required to stay in.
Because they didn't have Theresa May's stupid red lines.
How many times germany break the EU rule without getting fined (punished).
The EU rule, court of justice is a joke. They could twist the law.
As negotiation is about power, it could only be met with power.
Ruling out no-deal scenario will leave the UK without leverage in the negotiation. That is what the remoaners keep pushing.0 -
How many times germany break the EU rule without getting fined (punished).
The EU rule, court of justice is a joke. They could twist the law.
As negotiation is about power, it could only be met with power.
Ruling out no-deal scenario will leave the UK without leverage in the negotiation. That is what the remoaners keep pushing.
Alrighty then....
“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
As negotiation is about power, it is only power could solve the problem.
What power do we have here?
Also, ruling out a no-deal brexit, whilst losing us the ability to make a bluff no-one things we're likely to want to take, doesn't lose us much. It saves us a huge amount of money and manpower and lets us focus on the deal we actually want.0 -
What power do we have here?
Also, ruling out a no-deal brexit, whilst losing us the ability to make a bluff no-one things we're likely to want to take, doesn't lose us much. It saves us a huge amount of money and manpower and lets us focus on the deal we actually want.
Refer to post #12550 -
If we don't like something we've got options: the veto (which we'd never give up), just ignore it (like the french) or leave at that point (after forming a plan).
It's about as low risk as possible.
If we don't like things;
We use the veto which indicates we wish to operate outside what the EU wants.:rotfl: We may as well leave.
France ignore which means they operate outside what the EU, so if we follow suit we are outside what the EU wants.:rotfl: We may as well leave.
or we leave, we decided and we have not yet left:mad: So we leave.
Real shame we have so many people protecting their own very narrow perspective and vested interests and frustrating the democratically decided action.0 -
Yeah, we can leave now in case things we don't like happen in the future, which we can comfortably handle. It's like cutting off your leg because you don't want a knee replacement in 20 years.
None of our current concerns are the fault of the EU. Some of our future ones may be, so why not wait until the future ones become current concerns and decide what to do? Maybe the EU won't exist by then?Refer to post #1255
Ah, so you're talking about trying to threaten the EU that we'll pull our money / military / intelligence if we don't get a special deal? I can't see any of that working, unless your plan is for us to be completely isolated.
We could get a deal like Switzerland (and the EU has offered to use any existing deal as a starting point) but it doesn't fit with Mays red lines, namely freedom of movement.
The Guardian has an interesting article that suggests a way everyone can be happy - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/17/semi-brexit-england-wales-leaving-eu-solution?CMP=fb_gu
Essentially, if Scotland and NI Remain (as they want) and England and Wales leave (as they want), whilst remaining within the UK, the the GFA is safe and England/Wales can have almost any sort of deal with the EU (which could include free movement of capital, services, goods but not people or the ECJ).0 -
Do you recall the fuss the eu kicked up when we threatened to pull our intelligence section before? That is one of the most valuable things we have, we are world leaders in intelligence circles.
The majority of our current concerns are the fault of the eu, they are the ones that want to head to a us of e. We have waited for too long for the eu to realise they have to change, they are like dinosaurs that don't realise they are extinct yet, they also tend to favour France and Germany, look at the CAP, yes the funds get distributed, but france tends to get the most.
It is my belief that they will find a way to remove the rebate, find a way to remove the veto and to force us into the euro and the Schengen, or it will be a two speed Europe meaning we end up sidelined anyway.
Our voting influence has decreased from 17% to 13%, if there is anything the eastern Europeans want to vote against they will just throw money at them to force it through, costing us even more.
The eu is planning to remove the member states' veto on taxation, probably will do so on a lot more things. They may not be able to turn around and say we no longer have a veto, but they most certainly can change things from absolute majority to qualified majority voting.
We are like toothless tigers in the eu, between 2010 and 2015 the UK voted no 23 times and abstained 18 times, all the measures went through costing us billions. It gets worse the further back you go. So when the veto is eliminated the eu will turn into an even worse beast.What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare0
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