If there is a second referendum ...

kabayiri

Filo25 wrote: »

Can I just say that if there was a second ref (unlikely) and remain won (probably 50:50), then it shouldn't be taken by anyone as a sign that all is well in the country and that there is some kind of mandate for things to carry on as they have been, a lot of people have had enough of how they perceive the country not to be run for their benefit.

The problem is I don't think the Tory party has any interest in doing that and while I won't deny the current Labour party would want to do it, I'm not sure they are likely to be competent enough to deliver it (plus any kind of radical change is difficult and expensive to deliver)

I mentioned before how my vote was partly steered towards disrupting a status quo that I considered stale and not fit for purpose going forward.

I really really didn't expect the collapse in confidence in both major parties though! It's definitely going to get more turbulent in the political sphere. Maybe they hope the public will just turn off and watch X Factor or something.

kingstreet

kabayiri wrote: »

In 2010 the Tories stood on a manifesto commitment to manage migration. Undoubtedly, it helped them gain power.

I consider that a 'mention'.

Yes. The Conservative party has had a daft target it has consistently failed to attempt, let alone meet in the one area over which St Theresa herself held sway.

I said no specific mention of non-EU immigration which has (IIRC) always been higher than EU immigration.

kingstreet

kabayiri wrote: »

Maybe they hope the public will just turn off and watch X Factor or something.

Gin or Soma, depending on your view - Orwellian, or Huxleyian.

LHW99

When you raise this, some will point out that control does not necessarily mean reduce.

Agreed, however IMO you cannot reasonably reduce (or even increase in an appropriate way) unless there is first at least a degree of organised control.

kingstreet

lisyloo wrote: »

Anyone can come from the EU, low skilled or even criminals.

So how do we get 248,000 net in and doctors can't and hit the skilled limit? Who/what are the rest made up of?

I know EU immigration can be made up of crims etc. We get it stuffed down our throats incessantly by the Mail and Express. No mention of the others the Government seems happy to accept, despite its avowed target.

StevieJ

lisyloo wrote: »

So are you saying you think that immigration is still a major issue?
I think people are now being made aware of all the areas it does affect e.g. fishing, farming, supply of medicines as examples and that immigratin is no longer hogging the lime light (however I don't live in an area blighted by immigration).

A large poll of 20,000 people asking various questions was conducted in November, there was one particularly surprising finding.

So far then, it would seem that the UK government have read the public mood correctly. However, in what is perhaps the most surprising finding of the poll, no less than 62% said the UK should, if necessary, accept a provision that meant that ‘After Brexit, UK and EU citizens, who wished to do so could live and work in each other’s countries’, while only 21% were opposed. Even as many as 55% of Leave voters said the UK should be willing to sign up to such a provision. The wording was, of course, intended to refer to ‘freedom of movement’, yet another of the UK government’s red lines, and central to the debate about immigration during the referendum campaign.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/lessons-from-the-brexit-what-the-nation-really-thinks-poll/

kabayiri

lisyloo wrote: »

So are you saying you think that immigration is still a major issue?
I think people are now being made aware of all the areas it does affect e.g. fishing, farming, supply of medicines as examples and that immigratin is no longer hogging the lime light (however I don't live in an area blighted by immigration).

Immigration is an issue, anywhere you go, pretty much.

I found a recent trip to Poland enlightening. They as much as anyone, know what it is like to have influence from Germany, Austria-Hungary, Russia etc.

Control has to and fro'd for centuries.

Right now, they have 97% christian ethnicity, but who is to say it won't change again?

I don't understand why Open Borders fanatics think that the mindset of people will change the patterns which have occurred for centuries.

cogito

“The European people are a family in this world… Is is not very clever to think, that in such a small house as Europe it is possible to maintain a community of nations with different legal systems and legal moral codeces.”

Isn't this what remainers think?

lisyloo

Why do you think it's not possible?
We've been in for quite for quite a while and I don't think legal systems and legal moral codes have broken down.


If we leave without a deal though the bodies could start piling up...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46480374

scaredofdebt

cogito wrote: »

“The European people are a family in this world… Is is not very clever to think, that in such a small house as Europe it is possible to maintain a community of nations with different legal systems and legal moral codeces.”

Isn't this what remainers think?

Not really, this remainer just thinks we're better off in the EU than out.