Stopping on a roundabout

Car_54

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

Even wilful obstruct is a unlikely player its not meant to be used to a punative tactic for a roaduser collecting a passenger at the side of the unrestricted roadway if it was taxi's and busses would infring the section 137 on regular basis,

If parliament didn't mean it to be used in that way, they would have written it down.

They did not, so it means what it says "If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence ..."

andy13

Thanks for the replies. Stopping at the kerb to alight/board passengers is allowed as mentioned. Again I can't find anything prohibiting this on a Roundabout.
The 10m of a junction is just advice in the HC.
The HC does not mention anything on the subject.
Leaving vehicles in a dangerous postition I believe would refer to parking.
Causing an interference with a junction - I can't find reference to this offence.

PasturesNew

It'd be potentially dangerous, reckless even ... because a roundabout tends to be "a place of smooth movement for traffic who don't expect it" ....

One night, late at night, only car on the road, I entered a large junction roundabout and a police car turned his blue lights on behind me. I wasn't going to pull over on a roundabout, so I kept going, all the way round ... pulled off and pulled over when I felt it was "safe to stop" away from the junction.

He was FURIOUS... spitting and furious!!!

I calmly said "I didn't think it wise to stop on a roundabout as that'd be daft/dangerous" and he shouted at me "I DECIDE WHEN AND WHERE YOU STOP". The 4rse.

I'd still do what I did again though .... it'd be daft, dangerous, reckless to stop on a roundabout for any reason other than catastrophic breakdown.

grahamm

PasturesNew wrote: »

I calmly said "I didn't think it wise to stop on a roundabout as that'd be daft/dangerous" and he shouted at me "I DECIDE WHEN AND WHERE YOU STOP". The 4rse.

Highway Code Rule 106

Police stopping procedures. If the police want to stop your vehicle they will, where possible, attract your attention by

• flashing blue lights, headlights or sounding their siren or horn, usually from behind
• directing you to pull over to the side by pointing and/or using the left indicator.

You MUST then pull over and stop as soon as it is safe to do so. Then switch off your engine.
Law RTA 1988 sect 163





I'd have considered making a report about him to his station/ superior officer, both for wanting you to pull over in a position which wasn't safe *and* for his inappropriate attitude and behaviour.

Car_54

andy13 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Stopping at the kerb to alight/board passengers is allowed as mentioned. Again I can't find anything prohibiting this on a Roundabout. See Rule 242, and the underlying law " No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road. "
The 10m of a junction is just advice in the HC. The HC is not 'just advice'. "Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts..."
The HC does not mention anything on the subject. Yes it does. A roundabout IS a junction.
Leaving vehicles in a dangerous postition I believe would refer to parking. No it wouldn't. The point is that it's dangerous, whether or not there's someone in the driving seat.
Causing an interference with a junction - I can't find reference to this offence. You're right - it isn't.

See comments above.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Car_54 wrote: »

If parliament didn't mean it to be used in that way, they would have written it down.

They did not, so it means what it says "If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence ..."

When you read the whole legistlastive passage you know whats its real intention is behind the act, if it was meant for the purposes of road traffic enforcement then ask yourself this question. Why is it not part of the Road traffic regulation act 1985 or road traffic act 1988 that was written a mere 8 years later?


And ofcourse local police procedural guidance for parking and obstruction when it comes to section 137 of how they enforce it. And they hold themselves to the Nagy V west case law, case standandards.
In Nagy v West (1965) it was held that the test of whether a particular use of a


highway, by a vehicle, amounts to an obstruction is whether such use is


[FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]unreasonable having regard to all the circumstances [/FONT]including its [FONT=Arial,Bold]duration,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold] [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold]position and purpose[/FONT]. Also, whether the unreasonable use caused an actual, as




opposed to a potential, obstruction.
.

andy13

Rule 242. Every Bus that stopped on the Highway to Board/alight passengers, every Goods vehicle loading/unloading would fall foul of this.

This issue was settled in Makda v the Parking Adjudicator in the High Court.
A long read if you want to http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=199321


"The general rule of law is now confirmed that taxi drivers, minicab drivers and any other drivers are allowed to wait for a long as necessary on single or double yellow lines for the purpose of picking up a passenger and/or their luggage. In the case of black cabs which can be hailed by a passenger in the street it is easy to see what time is taken and in the normal course of events that pickup time is clearly necessary."


The Highway Code isn't Law. It's an approved Code of Practice that sometimes quotes the relevant law. That's been done to death on here.


The 10m of a junction is exactly that, advice not law.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

andy13 wrote: »

Rule 242. Every Bus that stopped on the Highway to Board/alight passengers, every Goods vehicle loading/unloading would fall foul of this.

This issue was settled in Makda v the Parking Adjudicator in the High Court.
A long read if you want to http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=199321


"The general rule of law is now confirmed that taxi drivers, minicab drivers and any other drivers are allowed to wait for a long as necessary on single or double yellow lines for the purpose of picking up a passenger and/or their luggage. In the case of black cabs which can be hailed by a passenger in the street it is easy to see what time is taken and in the normal course of events that pickup time is clearly necessary."


The Highway Code isn't Law. It's an approved Code of Practice that sometimes quotes the relevant law. That's been done to death on here.


The 10m of a junction is exactly that, advice not law.

Your right, Highway code is code of practice, it contains some law and is defined as a MUST= Lawfull instructions, should=guidance in the code. Its a manipulative tool that is used as evidence in cases where the code is in dispute of its meaning, prosecutors are not in favour of doing that as it can back backfire and go down in the office like a gastric infected fart.


Nagy V West 1965 is the standard set for willful obstruct.

Carrot007

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

Your right

Is an exit on the roundabout?


Anyhow. Stoppingh on a roundabout is being a tit. No sane person would do it. It people I were picking up stood there I sould expect them to walk to a resonable place or be left.


Random annecdote. I once witnessed a tool stop on the inner lane of the roundabout, get out and make a phone call. And this was the 90s so answering a call would have been fine in the car (as long as not being an idiot, so probably not for them).

CardinalWolsey

PasturesNew wrote: »

It'd be potentially dangerous, reckless even ... because a roundabout tends to be "a place of smooth movement for traffic who don't expect it" ....

One night, late at night, only car on the road, I entered a large junction roundabout and a police car turned his blue lights on behind me. I wasn't going to pull over on a roundabout, so I kept going, all the way round ... pulled off and pulled over when I felt it was "safe to stop" away from the junction.

He was FURIOUS... spitting and furious!!!

I calmly said "I didn't think it wise to stop on a roundabout as that'd be daft/dangerous" and he shouted at me "I DECIDE WHEN AND WHERE YOU STOP". The 4rse.

I'd still do what I did again though .... it'd be daft, dangerous, reckless to stop on a roundabout for any reason other than catastrophic breakdown.

Unless there was another vehicle right behind you with big blue flashy lights warning other road users perhaps...? Unless you're in Swindon.