Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

editor1

Are any other posters on the Zapp 18 month Fix offered in the first quarter and what are your opinions over the present debacle - namely, are you staying PUT or leaving with exit fees for more expensive 'Fixed' deals?

bye_bye_band_G

I have just taken a phone call from OFTM. They have changed their minds - again.
For those of you like me with a large credit you're worried about, who they have been telling they need to keep TWO months DD in credit, as well as the increased winter DDs, they've now climbed down.
It's now one months DD to be kept back, as well as the increased winter DDs.
If you want to know how they've worked out what they'll refund you, it's this. Look on your OFTM Hero Hub to see what they reckon you're in credit to the tune of. Subtract one month's winter DD that they've said they're taking in December. They have said they'll refund me the rest, should be in my bank account in about 10 days.
They also offered me the choice of leaving the credit with them and reducing the winter DD. The monthly reduction offered would have been a quarter of the refund they were offering instead. As there are 4 winter DDs to go, the maths are exactly the same whichever option I chose, so I chose to have the money in my bank account rather than theirs.
It remains to be seen if and when the promised refund materialises, but I'm a lot happier now.
I still don't trust them an inch and am appalled by the way their policies are changing by the day, but from a 'looking after my own financial interests' point of view, I'll stay with them. For now.

If you have a large credit with them, get in touch and ask for it all back except the ONE month, as this is their Tuesday policy.
Who knows what their policy will be tomorrow.

igdirect

I got an email from Outfox yesterday about a message I sent cancelling my DD and asking for an alternative payment method. Of course, they said that only DD was acceptable. I pointed out to them that Condition 27.1 of their suppliers licence states that they have a duty to "offer the customer a wide choice of payment methods for paying Charges for the Supply of Electricity / Gas and those methods must include payment by cash", so I wanted to pay by cash. The agent said that Outfox only offer DD. When I said that they were therefore in breach of their suppliers licence, their reasoning was that because other companies do it, they do it too. Anyway, after hearing "I can understand what you're saying but..." far too many times, I was told that a supervisor would call me back in up to 5 days. Can't wait.

Barneybear1

Editor1 you think all this negative stuff with oftm is a bit mad, they have tried to cash grab via peoples dd payments,they have unlawfully changed peoples terms and conditions removing the 30 days notice clause (thanks to bs7s eagle eyes for spotting that). It is little wonder people are concerned. I do not wish for oftm to go under either as I will be with another supplier on 7/12 and wish to get my credit back.

Mister_G

Ironically, if they go under, you'd probably stand a better chance of getting your money back more quickly under SoLR than waiting for OTM to refund you if they didn't!

alittleowl

These seasoned and savvy MSE forumites who think us newbies are being "mad" or "melodramatic" are "panicking" don't understand that we're new to this kind of treatment by a company, that's why we're new here too. Two weeks ago I didn't know MSE forums existed because I'd never needed to vent my frustration about a company because I've never experienced anything like the behaviour of OFtM.

It is frightening to be threatened and frankly robbed blind by your energy company. This isn't a corner shop where, if I don't like their prices I can walk down a few doors and go to a different shop, these people have the ability to terminate your energy supply in the middle of winter which for many people, especially elderly people and people with young children, is a matter of life or death. I know that supposedly "they're not allowed to do that" but given their behaviour I would put nothing past them. Nothing at all. I know that panicking isn't going to solve anything but it is a totally understandable reaction under the circumstances.

And yes, I realise I was naive to believe the Cheap Energy Club's promises that switching to the cheapest deal was going to save me money and be hassle free but my switch to OFtM this year was the first time I've switched any sort of utility and it's gone very very wrong. As a newish widow I've had a very steep learning curve over the last 18 months - my late husband earned all the money and dealt with all the finances but left us with absolutely nothing because he thought he had another twenty working years ahead of him - and this OFtM debacle makes me feel that I've let my children down in a way that their father wouldn't have. We're facing our second Christmas without him and OFtM's sudden demand for an extra £75 in December was going to wipe out our Christmas fund. I have no debts other than the mortgage, I've gone back to work, I've grown loads veg over the summer and pickled it and filled up the freezer, I can make a roast chicken last a week but this financial stuff is still very new to me. I'm getting there in terms of building up a cash reserve but it's going to take time.

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for the advice of people here who know more (far more) about how these energy companies operate than I do, but please consider that not everyone gets to choose the circumstances in which they find themselves and many of us are totally bewildered by the actions of OFtM.

ben501

editor1 wrote: »

what are your opinions over the present debacle -

I applaud their ingenuity at finding all these loopholes in current regulations such as (it has been suggested) changing the T&C relating to the fee from actual usage to estimated usage which has effectively made this a variable rate.
Have a look at this thread for some of the other changes they've sneaked in


Before I joined these clowns I hadn't even heard of their method of charging so I can sympathise with others confused by it.


Their customer service on the other hand is utter crap. They claim to have apologised to everyone for [STRIKE]not being sneaky enough[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]being caught out[/STRIKE] the confusion caused but many have not heard from them. Let's not forget this is at least the third time they've made concessions/backtracked after [STRIKE]the public backlash[/STRIKE] listening to customers.





As for me, it's a cheap tariff. Why would I want to move? Their incompetence must be hurting them a lot more than me. I do feel sorry for those who joined later or are on one of their variable rates though. Not a good mess to be stuck with.

dazzh

bye_bye_band_G wrote: »

I have just taken a phone call from OFTM. They have changed their minds - again.
For those of you like me with a large credit you're worried about, who they have been telling they need to keep TWO months DD in credit, as well as the increased winter DDs, they've now climbed down.
It's now one months DD to be kept back, as well as the increased winter DDs.QUOTE]

Thanks for the info.
I'm £272 in credit. Winter monthly DD is now £130 so I've asked for £142 to be returned. I used their refunds email address so we will so how it goes.

System

alittleowl wrote: »

These seasoned and savvy MSE forumites who think us newbies are being "mad" or "melodramatic" are "panicking" don't understand that we're new to this kind of treatment by a company, that's why we're new here too. Two weeks ago I didn't know MSE forums existed because I'd never needed to vent my frustration about a company because I've never experienced anything like the behaviour of OFtM.

It is frightening to be threatened and frankly robbed blind by your energy company. This isn't a corner shop where, if I don't like their prices I can walk down a few doors and go to a different shop, these people have the ability to terminate your energy supply in the middle of winter which for many people, especially elderly people and people with young children, is a matter of life or death. I know that supposedly "they're not allowed to do that" but given their behaviour I would put nothing past them. Nothing at all. I know that panicking isn't going to solve anything but it is a totally understandable reaction under the circumstances.

And yes, I realise I was naive to believe the Cheap Energy Club's promises that switching to the cheapest deal was going to save me money and be hassle free but my switch to OFtM this year was the first time I've switched any sort of utility and it's gone very very wrong. As a newish widow I've had a very steep learning curve over the last 18 months - my late husband earned all the money and dealt with all the finances but left us with absolutely nothing because he thought he had another twenty working years ahead of him - and this OFtM debacle makes me feel that I've let my children down in a way that their father wouldn't have. We're facing our second Christmas without him and OFtM's sudden demand for an extra £75 in December was going to wipe out our Christmas fund. I have no debts other than the mortgage, I've gone back to work, I've grown loads veg over the summer and pickled it and filled up the freezer, I can make a roast chicken last a week but this financial stuff is still very new to me. I'm getting there in terms of building up a cash reserve but it's going to take time.

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for the advice of people here who know more (far more) about how these energy companies operate than I do, but please consider that not everyone gets to choose the circumstances in which they find themselves and many of us are totally bewildered by the actions of OFtM.

I don’t condone the way that OFTM has treated its customers; however, paying in advance of supply; maintaining a minimum credit balance, and winter/summer payments are fast becoming the norm for a lot of the smaller suppliers. Many are running at a loss, and they do not have the ability to secure Bank borrowing at competitive rates to pay their wholesalers in advance of supply.

To put your mind at rest (from the Ofgem website):

Quote: Disconnecting customers should always be a last resort

Disconnecting a customer’s energy supply should always be a last resort and avoided wherever possible. SLC 27 prohibits suppliers from disconnecting pensioners during winter, and requires suppliers to take all reasonable steps to avoid disconnecting premises that include any pensioners, disabled or chronically sick customers in winter. Suppliers must not disconnect anyone whose debt they have not taken all reasonable steps to recover first by using a PPM.

Our Standards of Conduct require all suppliers to treat each customer fairly. We expect suppliers to consider on a case-by-case basis whether it is fair to disconnect customers. Unquote

In 2016, a total of 210 disconnections were carried out.

bs7

Barneybear1 wrote: »

they have unlawfully changed peoples terms and conditions removing the 30 days notice clause (thanks to bs7s eagle eyes for spotting that). It is little wonder people are concerned. I do not wish for oftm to go under either as I will be with another supplier on 7/12 and wish to get my credit back.

Thanks for the mention Barneybear. I started it in another thread so it wouldn't get 'lost' with all the other discussion and in the hope of someone at MSE to perhaps take the issue up and push OFTM further on the point in the hope that it does help someone who is struggling with the changes at this time of the year and wants to escape to a more responsible provider.

editor1 wrote: »

what are your opinions over the present debacle - namely, are you staying PUT or leaving with exit fees for more expensive 'Fixed' deals?

In case you didn't see it editor1: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5929770/outfoxthemarket-direct-debit-changes-avoid-the-exit-fee


It looks unlikely that OutFoxTheCustomer cannot actually charge those exit fees: the original contract provided that 30 days notice should be given of such changes but they removed that without any notice at all - so technically speaking that change doesn't stand (it wasn't in accordance with their own contract) and technically they now have to still give 30 days notice of that change and of these changes.