Outfoxthemarket direct debit changes, avoid the exit fee

bs7

I note that it would appear that MoneySavingExpert are not quite being the consumer champions they purport to be:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2018/11/outfox-the-market-hikes-energy-bills-a-third-time-and-increases-/

If you're one of the small number of Outfox the Market customers on a fixed deal, your tariff includes a £50 per fuel exit fee. So unfortunately you can't simply ditch and switch for free.

However, MSE haven't looked at things quite carefully enough on this issue and there's a decent chance customers will be able to avoid the exit fee, albeit they may need to take the matter to Ofgem with OutFox don't concede the point.

OutFox have been incredibly sneaky and underhand and made some changes to their contract that will potentially allow most customers to avoid the exit fee.

OutFox don't provide previous copies of their terms and conditions (as one might expect from a company with such dubious and underhand business practices) but on the 8th of October 2018 the terms were saved here - https://web.archive.org/web/20181008172806/https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/Terms-and-conditions.aspx

14.3 If we make changes to this contract that are disadvantageous to you, we will give you 30 days’ notice to let you know about the changes. If you do not agree with the changes, you can switch to another supplier without paying a termination fee.

14.4 Please be aware that none of following constitutes a disadvantageous change:
Changing your payment method.
Increasing additional charges.
Changing or withdrawing any benefits in accordance with this contract.
Increasing the VAT you pay.
Making changes to the contract if we are required by Ofgem’s rules to make them.

The current terms and conditions - https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/Terms-and-conditions.aspx - state the following:

14.1 We reserve the right to change your contract at any time and will provide the relevant advance notice where applicable according to our licence conditions.

14.2 Please be aware that none of following constitutes a disadvantageous change however this list is not exhaustive and is merely illustrative:
Changing your payment method.
Increasing additional charges.
Moving you automatically onto a variable tariff.
Changing or withdrawing any benefits in accordance with this contract.
Increasing the VAT you pay.
Making changes to the contract if we are required by Ofgem’s rules to make them.
Making any change which we are permitted to and which is within our remit to decide to make.

Firstly, it would appear that removing the protection of 30 days' notice is clearly disadvantageous and that we all ought to be given 30 days' notice of that change in itself. Second, removing the option of no termination fee in the event of disadvantageous changes would be disadvantageous and require very clear notice again. And similarly, the complete change of billing pattern would be disadvantageous.


I would urge anyone caught by the exit fee to challenge it and threaten to take the issue to Ofgem. It is despicable that a company would act like this and even more so that Ofgem offers so little disincentive or offers so little assistance to consumers. I'm not sure any of the changes are valid at all: we weren't given any notice of the original disadvantageous changes and the recent changes have been made based on the purported changes.

Takmon

Anyone who is on the OTM fixed tariff and wants to switch before the deal ends must be crazy!

The unit prices they are paying are far less than anything else available now and to switch would mean a big increase in their bills. Just because your Direct Debits have increased it doesn't mean your paying anymore for your energy when your on a fixed deal.

System

Takmon wrote: »

Anyone who is on the OTM fixed tariff and wants to switch before the deal ends must be crazy!

The unit prices they are paying are far less than anything else available now and to switch would mean a big increase in their bills. Just because your Direct Debits have increased it doesn't mean your paying anymore for your energy when your on a fixed deal.

Careful - you will be accused of being an energy insider. I agree 100%: if customers want to make a protest then switching away is a good way of doing it. Indeed, I have used this tactic myself; however, in the cold light of day, I have invariably found that my decision has ended up costing me more than it would have had I stayed the course.

MadMat

Takmon wrote: »

Anyone who is on the OTM fixed tariff and wants to switch before the deal ends must be crazy!

The unit prices they are paying are far less than anything else available now and to switch would mean a big increase in their bills. Just because your Direct Debits have increased it doesn't mean your paying anymore for your energy when your on a fixed deal.

Assuming of course that you can afford the vastly inflated DDs without it having am impact on being able to pay your other bills!

System

MadMat wrote: »

Assuming of course that you can afford the vastly inflated DDs without it having am impact on being able to pay your other bills!

That's a fair point; however, switching at this time of year never guarantees a 1/12 DD payment despite what a member of CS might say on the phone. Smaller suppliers - in particular - have clauses in their terms and conditions that require customers to maintain a credit balance sufficient to cover the following month's usage. How many people actually read the small print? Frying pan to the fire comes to mind.

bs7

Takmon wrote: »

The unit prices they are paying are far less than anything else available now and to switch would mean a big increase in their bills. Just because your Direct Debits have increased it doesn't mean your paying anymore for your energy when your on a fixed deal.

Hengus wrote: »

if customers want to make a protest then switching away is a good way of doing it.

MadMat wrote: »

Assuming of course that you can afford the vastly inflated DDs without it having am impact on being able to pay your other bills!

Thanks for that MadMat, what I don't think Takmon and Hengus (nor indeed OutFoxTheMarket) appear to appreciate is that not everyone can afford their monthly direct debit to jump 75% ... or when they reflected upon it further a 40% increase ... with next to no notice of the change. And more so where a large number of those same customers were in significant credit in any case and now have to take photos of the meters and have the equivalent of 2 month's payment before they can get a refund.


Anyone that thinks that that is reasonable behaviour at this time of year is naive at best.

Hengus wrote: »

Smaller suppliers - in particular - have clauses in their terms and conditions that require customers to maintain a credit balance sufficient to cover the following month's usage. How many people actually read the small print? Frying pan to the fire comes to mind.

So perhaps there's a point to be borne in mind there - that anyone that wants certainty ought to avoid smaller suppliers. Ironically, the behaviour of this particularly supplier is going to have a chilling effect upon people considering smaller companies generally. Hence why Ofgem should be taking a close look at this sort of behaviour and stomping down on it. OutFoxTheMarket is run by a bunch of clowns that clearly have little idea at how to run a business and have proven several times to have failed to anticipate the costs of running their business and have had to increase costs several times and now increasing everyone's direct debit following "reviewing" accounts.


It's ironic that you are pointing to the small print though as that's precisely what my thread is pointing out - the small print in OutFox's contract doesn't allow them to do what they are doing and they need to give 30 days notice of the purported changes and explicitly advise people that they can leave the contract if they wish as a result.


And yes, I appreciate your point that OFTM may still actually be the cheapest, however, its about consumer choice and I'm disappointed that MSE have not pushed this further on behalf of consumers and are providing incorrect advice about the exit fees and purporting that they still apply. Given the specific wordings in the terms of the contract there is a reasonable chance of those fees being refunded in due course, albeit it may take a complaint to the Ombudsman.



Similarly, if OFTM are so certain that they are the cheapest why won't they back that up by removing barriers to customers that are unhappy suddenly paying 40% a month more with no notice - especially in light of their disingenuous claim that they wish to avoid the risk of customer's accrueing debt.




I should add that I'm not on a fixed contract with OutFoxTheMarket but think it's only fair that those that are and that may be struggling with the suddenly increased monthly fee should be provided with all the information about potentially changing suppliers.

System

bs7 wrote: »

Thanks for that MadMat, what I don't think Takmon and Hengus (nor indeed OutFoxTheMarket) appear to appreciate is that not everyone can afford their monthly direct debit to jump 75% ... or when they reflected upon it further a 40% increase ... with next to no notice of the change. And more so where a large number of those same customers were in significant credit in any case and now have to take photos of the meters and have the equivalent of 2 month's payment before they can get a refund.


Anyone that thinks that that is reasonable behaviour at this time of year is naive at best.









So perhaps there's a point to be borne in mind there - that anyone that wants certainty ought to avoid smaller suppliers. Ironically, the behaviour of this particularly supplier is going to have a chilling effect upon people considering smaller companies generally. Hence why Ofgem should be taking a close look at this sort of behaviour and stomping down on it. OutFoxTheMarket is run by a bunch of clowns that clearly have little idea at how to run a business and have proven several times to have failed to anticipate the costs of running their business and have had to increase costs several times and now increasing everyone's direct debit following "reviewing" accounts.


It's ironic that you are pointing to the small print though as that's precisely what my thread is pointing out - the small print in OutFox's contract doesn't allow them to do what they are doing and they need to give 30 days notice of the purported changes and explicitly advise people that they can leave the contract if they wish as a result.


And yes, I appreciate your point that OFTM may still actually be the cheapest, however, its about consumer choice and I'm disappointed that MSE have not pushed this further on behalf of consumers and are providing incorrect advice about the exit fees and purporting that they still apply. Given the specific wordings in the terms of the contract there is a reasonable chance of those fees being refunded in due course, albeit it may take a complaint to the Ombudsman.



Similarly, if OFTM are so certain that they are the cheapest why won't they back that up by removing barriers to customers that are unhappy suddenly paying 40% a month more with no notice - especially in light of their disingenuous claim that they wish to avoid the risk of customer's accrueing debt.




I should add that I'm not on a fixed contract with OutFoxTheMarket but think it's only fair that those that are and that may be struggling with the suddenly increased monthly fee should be provided with all the information about potentially changing suppliers.

Suppliers are not charities. The only social obligations forced upon come from Ofgem. Good customer service comes down to Company ethos. The tariff caps introduced by Government and volatile energy prices appear to be hitting some suppliers very hard. Caps are set looking into the rear view mirror when, for small suppliers, future energy costs are the concern.

If you were a supplier struggling to stay solvent would you just let it happen?

Finally, I see nothing in the proposed Ofgem new supplier tests that will stop this sort of thing from happening, and Ofgem doesn’t have the resources, or the will, to oversee 70 or so suppliers.

Merlin139

Just carried out a comparison with Uswitch to find out if I would be better moving from my fixed rate with OFTM:

Figures based on 9000 kWh Gas 2300 kWh Elec

Peoples Energy Variable rate + £100.75

Toto Energy 12 months Fixed + £102.39

ESB 24 months Fixed + £132.18

So as its obviously costing them money I will stay where I am. Have been refunded my credit and am still pursuing my complaint.

Have now submitted a 2nd complaint about the fact that they are not dealing with the original complaint but just replying each time with the same thing that my DD will be XYZ. Am also claiming a monetary value for the time I am spending dealing with this matter.

I can afford the proposed increase from £61.38 to £85.93 but its the principle that I am against.

bs7

Hengus wrote: »

Suppliers are not charities. The only social obligations forced upon come from Ofgem. Good customer service comes down to Company ethos. The tariff caps introduced by Government and volatile energy prices appear to be hitting some suppliers very hard. Caps are set looking into the rear view mirror when, for small suppliers, future energy costs are the concern.

If you were a supplier struggling to stay solvent would you just let it happen?

Finally, I see nothing in the proposed Ofgem new supplier tests that will stop this sort of thing from happening, and Ofgem doesn’t have the resources, or the will, to oversee 70 or so suppliers.

No one is saying they are charities - but Ofgem should perhaps be looking at clear tests for new entrants to the market and asking them to confirm that their business plans pass basic scrutiny and stress tests.

From the outset OutFox's business plan didn't work - they increased their fees almost immediately and have continually done so. That isn't the behaviour that suggests that the company is being run by people that have a clue about the business or have a sustainable business plan. They have been incredibly naive and clearly don't have sufficient resources to survive in the longer term otherwise wouldn't be treating customers in this way. A company that didn't foresee any risk of wholesale energy costs increasing would appear to be run by idiots!

They are bringing the entirely industry into disrepute and such behaviour will negatively affect customers and discourage switching to smaller companies.


Anyway, the purpose of this thread isn't to discuss the merits of OutFox but to highlight that there is an escape route - people's cashflow may end up being affected less with the £50 x2 exit fees rather than the 40% increases at the moment (who knows if they'll keep increasing it further in the future, especially given that they wanted 70% increases initially) - and follow the complaints process or even a Small Claim in order to get the exit fees back.

System

Given that the proposed escape route is legally unproven, I would suggest that those who wish to escape might like to look at Bulb - and collect a £50 bonus on the way - before switching again penalty free.

editor1

@Hengus,

I've been quite vocal on the OFTM issue, specifically with those of us on the Zapp 18 month Fixed Deal offered in the first quarter of 2018 - the costs were the cheapest in the first quarter and are considerably lower than anything you'll find today, with the exception of one business, in which case you save pennies a month on a Variable deal that can increase cost at anytime - all figures i use are from the Energy Club comparison service.

Exit fees or no exit fees it makes no economic sense for my folks to abandon OFTM. Yes our DD has increased from £85 a month to £119 a month, but will drop to £51 a month for low use season, so its horses for courses - the fact remains better to wait for OFTM to hit the wall than to change provider if on the 'Fixed' deal, this does not apply to the Variable deal though.

As far as their electricity banding goes, we remain on £10.99, the same as when we joined, and my father would have to increase his waste of electricity by 15% before we hit the higher band.

Again, and if you can stomach the DD increase for 6 months if on a Fixed contract, my advice is stick the course, particularly given any credit you may have with OFTM becomes insecure once you begin any switch-over process. Best let them hit the wall, which on this occasion i actually hope they won't, well not until our current contract expires at the end of September 2019.