Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

Terry_Towelling

I am faced with the same near-doubling of DDR for the winter period. I've told OTM not to do it and I've told them why - my consumption goes down significantly in the winter due to the way I heat my water. They are reviewing my request to stay with the same payment but I have had to email them a photo of my meter reading.

They say there are benefits to customers and I should not be afraid of change.

I say the only benefit is to them - they get to potentially cover more of their bad and doubtful debt exposure and I lose interest on the money I would otherwise have been saving for the next 6 months. I have therefore asked them to pay me 1.5% interest on any credit balance and I'll agree to the change. I've even offered to pay them for each month's usage as I go but they won't do this - partly, I guess, because they'd have to take the money in arrears whereas they currently take it in advance.

Does anyone think they may be in financial trouble and are trying to buy time by getting some extra cash in to stay afloat?

Scatty

Every time I try and live chat them, it just disappears mid sentence! So frustrating!

BedrockFred

Scatty wrote: »

Every time I try and live chat them, it just disappears mid sentence! So frustrating!

Live chat is working for me a little paitence is required but I have had a couple of live chats, although they have been pointless they just telling me how much they are helping me doubling my DD :embarasse
They have even agreed that with the increase in my DD I would build up an even bigger credit on my account, they passed on my concerns to the credit control department a couple of days ago but thus far I've heard nothing from them
The only person doubling the DD's is OFTM I refuse to accept this and cancelled my DD which is easy to do online, I really don't want any more credit on my account as it can be a pain to get it refunded if indeed they will. So my credit balance is now paying for the usage whilst my switch goes through

[Deleted User]

According to their very limited annual accounts, which are governed by the small business accountancy rules, and, according to the accounts of their holding company based in Malta for tax purposes, but registered here, they have liabilities of around £750,000 for last year/ this year (they changed their accountancy period for some reason), and this year/next year, they have to pay over £2.1 million up front for advance energy contracts. They keep saying to their customers, that "they are not a credit agent".

To me, it sounds like that they are trying to turn their customers into credit agents, where they get a long term interest free loan, without suffering the liabilities, and avoid borrowing the money in the market place at big interest rates.
However, if they go bust, the State, via OFFGEM and the energy industry pay off the debts through a levy on the energy industry, who, after all, are us, the consumers...whilst those of their customers get transferred to another company, and whether they will see their credits returned...is another story.


What I don't understand, is why they see me as a credit agency for their mismanagement and poor customer relations. If only they had consulted their customers, properly, in the first place.

But, there you are, that is only an opinion. I am not an expert in these matters.



I actually support the government in helping to subsidise small businesses, to help them get started and become viable competitors against the "big boys" in the market place. However, when it comes to bailing out inefficient and badly run companies, or ones who are based abroad so that they can avoid their tax liabilities and other transparency questions...is another matter.
ATB
Dougie.

Scatty

BedrockFred wrote: »

I refuse to accept this and cancelled my DD which is easy to do online, I really don't want any more credit on my account as it can be a pain to get it refunded if indeed they will. So my credit balance is now paying for the usage whilst my switch goes through

I finally got through (to Tyler) and asked if I could cancel my DD without charge as it is due to come out the day of my switch. He said it needs to be in force for my refund. I said ok fair enough - can you drop it to a nominal £1 as I've plenty of credit, or even better, cancel it and send me a cheque.

Ah, he said, you'll have to speak to our accounts team........ok bye Tyler......

lucyC

So OFTM have blocked me switching, presumably cos I cancelled my direct debit. I rang Fischer energy on 0800 103 2769, as ringing OFTM is pointless as I just get the engaged message. Managed to speak to someone who took a payment which was for this months direct debit, and they said they would not block the switch anymore. We will see.

robonik

I too am on a variable tariff because of uncertainty in the wholesale price and how smaller supply companies may react. OFTM reacted in this case without regard to reasonable customer care and circumstance and their actions as described in so many of these threads show that pretty clearly. More importantly is 'Will the company actually survive?'. My email to them...'an example of unthought though business management which better helps you as a company but not the customer. It helps you because you generate income to your buying level at a time of year when your outlay is greater so creating a better cashflow. You already have flexibility to raise (or lower) prices at any time according to market which is good. But it does not help budgeting for fixed, household expenditure over the fiscal year with marginal adjustment as necessary which is intelligent for the individual. The winter period is more difficult for many in the UK witness people choosing between heat or food, specially many older, those on their own, disabled people and single parents with children. If you proceed with this proposed nonsense then its time to look for a company with a more sensible business modus operandii that helps, not hinders, everybody. I do not intend to abide by such a scheme'.

I have put in train changing supplier and have confidence in their fixed tariff contract having discussed at length with them the situation OFTM find themselves in and my new company reacted in shock horror to such changes so close to the winter.

[Deleted User]

Hi LucyC,
Sorry you had that problem...I am still learning meself... I have to go through the same process in December, and am trying switch and to avoid owing OFTM any money, or them owing me any money. I have sent them an email, which you have probably already seen a copy of, as I posted it on here.

ATB
Dougie.

shaftthemarket

I have given a bit more thought to the whole DD question and surrounding risks, and who should bear them, and how. When I signed up, I knew it was right at the beginning of winter, and so 12 month averaged over the year would mean I would initially underpay, and then repay over the summer – in other words I would in effect get a free loan from Outfox The Customer, the company formally known as Outfox The Market. Being too fair for my own good, I pointed this out to them, and suggested I should pay a bit more in the winter so long as they reduced it appropriately in the summer (so perhaps I am ultimately to blame for this fiasco!). During the sign up, things were all very breezy, and their agents said all would be well and go smoothly, as well the would being a being foxes eyeing up a particularly juicy bunny. In fact, I was even sillier, as I even went so far as to say my past EAC data would be an underestimate of future use as I had made some changes to my heating, so perhaps I should pay a bit more. No doubt back at Fox Towers Basil’s brush positively bristled with excitement.

Now, and given what has happened, and having reflected a bit further, in fact I don’t think summer/winter rates are needed (unless perhaps the fox is stuck in a hole?). Consider that in all likelihood people sign up at random over the year, the usual trigger being a fix ending, or perhaps a spontaneous/random decision to see what is available, and switch if the deal looks right. There’s no reason to suppose everyone wants to switch at the same time, so the new bunnies I mean customers should arrive spread out evenly over the year.

Given steady equal monthly payments over the year based on a best estimate of actual future use, what this means is that over the year, the fox will make interest free loans to some (those who sign up in the winter months, and so initially underpay) while at other times the fox will get interest free loans (from those who sign up in the summer, and so initially overpay). Because the arrival of new customers (assuming this to be true) is spread out over the year, the net effect is that the loans to and from the bunnies/to and from the fox cancel out, and come year end all is well. To get back to quoting the Bard, All’s Well That ends Well.

Unless…

PS Dougie - perhaps also worth mentioning that Malta may have become rather shady in recent years, allegations of selling EU citizenship to Russian oligarchs, and of investigative bunnies being permanently foxed etc etc, though no doubt that is all based on hysterical reporting by ill-informed bunnies

Topiary

Still waiting for OFTM reply to my email sent Sunday evening 18 Nov to mr@outfoxthemarket.co.uk

Anyone had a reply yet to email ?