Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

Anthorn

ben501 wrote: »

You don't have to, and it's not true anyway.
The T&C that we agreed to are not, for most customers, the ones currently available to view on their website. They were changed, and we were never informed. The 'your responsibility' bit in the last paragraph is BS. (if you found MSE had added a clause to their T&C saying that anyone using this site had to pay £25 a month for the privilege, along with an invoice for £50 to cover the period since it was introduced, would you pay?)


https://web.archive.org/web/20181008172806/https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/Terms-and-conditions.aspx is an earlier copy but there is even disagreement whether those were in place at the time of joining.
Notice the lack of clause 22.8 amonst others). How can we have agreed to something we were never told about?

From the Outfox Ts&Cs:

22.8
(cut)
We updated our Terms and Conditions on 26th November 2018, it is your responsibility to read the terms and conditions regularly to make sure you are aware of any changes.

https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/Terms-and-conditions.aspx

But let's test that to see just how unique Outfox is. From MSE's Ts&Cs:

13. Changes. These Terms were published on 27 March 2018 and replace with immediate effect the Terms previously published on 2 March 2017.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/site/terms-conditions/

So Outfox isn't unique at all. In fact we can probably find much the same condition in just about every Ts&Cs from just about every company out there.

What it comes down to is if you don't know about a change to the Ts&Cs it's your own fault for not reading it! Further, any condition is not invalid just because you don't like it.

Pete99

Does anyone know if you have to explicitly terminate your contract with an energy supplier when you switch or does it terminate automatically, I've looked around the various government web sites and energy suppliers but there's no information on termination at switch just when your contract starts.

Anthorn

Pete99 wrote: »

Does anyone know if you have to explicitly terminate your contract with an energy supplier when you switch or does it terminate automatically, I've looked around the various government web sites and energy suppliers but there's no information on termination at switch just when your contract starts.

It all falls on the new supplier which informs the old supplier that you're switching.

Vortigern

Pete99 wrote: »

Does anyone know if you have to explicitly terminate your contract with an energy supplier when you switch or does it terminate automatically, I've looked around the various government web sites and energy suppliers but there's no information on termination at switch just when your contract starts.

You shouldn't have to explicitly terminate your contract with the losing supplier. Your only contact should be with the gaining supplier and that has always worked for me in previous switches...

...but in the case of OTM I felt it necessary to tell them that I'd switched, tell them that I'd cancelled my DD, and expressly forbid them from starting another DD.

My account with OTM has sufficient credit to cover my final bill, so there's no chance that they could levy a £25 charge for a failed DD.

Vortigern

TransmitThis wrote: »

They keep taking DD till you no longer owe any money then work out the final bill and issue a refund.

No. In my experience they keep on taking the DD even when your account is in credit and even when you've told them that the DD mandate is cancelled.

Steve456

Anthorn wrote: »

From the Outfox Ts&Cs:

https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/Terms-and-conditions.aspx

But let's test that to see just how unique Outfox is. From MSE's Ts&Cs:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/site/terms-conditions/

So Outfox isn't unique at all. In fact we can probably find much the same condition in just about every Ts&Cs from just about every company out there.

What it comes down to is if you don't know about a change to the Ts&Cs it's your own fault for not reading it! Further, any condition is not invalid just because you don't like it.

Terms and Conditions for using a web site (free of charge) is hardly the same thing as a supplier's contract with its customer. And for them to say that you are responsible for reading the online T&Cs "regularly" is laughable. If they want to change their contract with you, it is they who have to inform you.

ajsk

I am in exactly the same boat as everybody else with this company. What on earth is the regulator doing about this ! another energy company in crisis and all that happens is ---- a big fat zero, It will dive into the wide administration abyss and we will have another few hundred thousand customers left in the lurch.
I tried to raise the problems with this company with my local MP a few months ago, all i got was basically a shrugging of the shoulders

Anthorn

ajsk wrote: »

I am in exactly the same boat as everybody else with this company. What on earth is the regulator doing about this ! another energy company in crisis and all that happens is ---- a big fat zero, It will dive into the wide administration abyss and we will have another few hundred thousand customers left in the lurch.
I tried to raise the problems with this company with my local MP a few months ago, all i got was basically a shrugging of the shoulders

That is actually a very good point. If Outfox were actually doing what people in this thread say they are doing they would be investigated by OFGEM and have the fraud squad and maybe even Europol banging on their door. I can't see into the future but right now that's not happening.

I also don't see solicitors queuing up to start a group law suit, even though that was suggested in the Facebook group.

bubieyehyeh

According to BBC Radio4 Moneybox OFGEM were discussing compliance issues with OFTM.

Anthorn

bubieyehyeh wrote: »

According to BBC Radio4 Moneybox OFGEM were discussing compliance issues with OFTM.

Do you have a link to that information? All I can find is
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000199h
which by now is old news.