Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

Steve456

Anthorn wrote: »

. . .


Personally, I would just sit tight and wait to see what develops: Whatever happens your account credit should be safe.

. . . .

I could have foreseen exactly what Anthorn was going to say! OFTM has done nothing wrong! You are being soooooo unreasonable!


From my perspective; if the amount owed by OFTM is relatively insignificant then maybe take a more relaxed attitude. If, however, they owe you a considerable amount of money I would suggest a warning email giving then seven days in which to refund that to you or you will have the last direct debit reversed and await their final bill.


I cannot see what is in the least unreasonable in that.

Anthorn

Steve456 wrote: »

I could have foreseen exactly what Anthorn was going to say! OFTM has done nothing wrong! You are being soooooo unreasonable!


From my perspective; if the amount owed by OFTM is relatively insignificant then maybe take a more relaxed attitude. If, however, they owe you a considerable amount of money I would suggest a warning email giving then seven days in which to refund that to you or you will have the last direct debit reversed and await their final bill.


I cannot see what is in the least unreasonable in that.

The significant part of my post that you failed to quote is:

Further, if OFTM has breached the terms of its supplier license we can expect Ofgem to issue its equivalent of "We're watching you sunshine" so look out for that and its repercussions if any.

Is what I posted above in some way not true or a figment of my imagination?

What we are aiming at is what is "fair and reasonable" and to that we can add the provision derived from common law, "in the circumstances". i.e. is it fair and reasonable in the circumstance to expect an immediate refund?

As I also posted, whatever happens an account credit should be safe and probably the only outcome of hassling the supplier is further delay while they deal with it.

Steve456

Anthorn wrote: »

. . .



i.e. is it fair and reasonable in the circumstance to expect an immediate refund?

. . . . . .

Eight weeks! Immediate refund? Please give your definition of "immediate"!

The_Green_Hornet

Anthorn wrote: »

As I've said in previous posts the rule that energy companies must refund credit when asked by the customer does not exist and it still does not exist.

The key part of the provision is:


Since Ofgem supports energy suppliers building credit on accounts to account for upcoming increased consumption specifically in the winter months it is fair and reasonable for energy companies to not refund credit at this time of the year. Certainly, OFTM are not breaking the terms of that provision.

Conversely, customers who want a refund from OFTM would need to assert that refunding that credit is fair and reasonable.

I'm afraid you are completely wrong. It is the responsibility of the supplier to decide whether it is fair and reasonable to not refund, and if they don't refund they must inform the customer as to the reasons why.

Here is the relevant section for you to read again.

Where the licensee considers that it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for it not to refund any Credit which has accumulated under a Domestic Supply Contract in accordance with this provision, it must inform the relevant Domestic Customer of its view and of the reasons for holding that view.

Vortigern

jk0 wrote: »

When you get a bill from your new supplier, you will see what the initial readings used were. Then you can work out what OFTM owe you, and sue them if you think it worthwhile.

If you have the industry verified meter reading, work out what they owe you, and try a Letter Before Action, followed by Small Claims Court procedure. They may pay sooner to avoid the court fee.

jk0

Vortigern wrote: »

If you have the industry verified meter reading, work out what they owe you, and try a Letter Before Action, followed by Small Claims Court procedure. They may pay sooner to avoid the court fee.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Quentin

Vortigern wrote: »

If you have the industry verified meter reading, work out what they owe you, and try a Letter Before Action, followed by Small Claims Court procedure. They may pay sooner to avoid the court fee.

Defendants don't pay the court fees

They all have to be paid by the claimant in the first instance, (beginning as soon as the claimant commences "small claims court procedure"

Only if the claimant wins a judgement against the defendant would the defendant have to refund the claimant for fees paid.

If the claimant loses then they cannot get any refund of court costs

Anthorn

The_Green_Hornet wrote: »

I'm afraid you are completely wrong. It is the responsibility of the supplier to decide whether it is fair and reasonable to not refund, and if they don't refund they must inform the customer as to the reasons why.

Here is the relevant section for you to read again.

Where the licensee considers that it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for it not to refund any Credit which has accumulated under a Domestic Supply Contract in accordance with this provision, it must inform the relevant Domestic Customer of its view and of the reasons for holding that view.

I don't see your reasoning; You agree that it is the responsibility of the supplier to decide whether it is fair and reasonable to not refund yet you also claim that it is not the customer's responsibility to assert that it is reasonable for the supplier to refund which would be the case if the supplier refuses a refund or in the opinion of the customer unnecessarily delays the refund.

So what exactly is the reason why the customer wants the refund? Is it a case of, "I want a refund because I want it and that's it so there!"

domjon1

Just to add to the general information....

I switched away from OFTM as soon as I received the first email about winter DD hikes. I was £80 in debit and my DD was set to £175, to go out a few days after my switch completed.

I took a chance and cancelled my DD as it looked quite likely OFTM would be going bump at any moment.

They've tried to reinstate the DD a couple of times but no charges have been added to the account and my switch went through ok, presumably because I'd been in debit less than 28 days.

I've since used the bank details provided a few pages back to pay OFTM by BACS to take my account balance to £0. I also emailed them to inform them of my actions, warned them not to reactivate the DD and tell them I await my final bill which I will settle by BACS.... received a pleasant enough email back that raised no objections and informed me it could take up to 8 weeks for the final bill to arrive.

Reading some of the other replies, it seems I took the right course of action.

Good luck to anyone struggling to get money back off them.

hubb

I switched to So Energy which completed on the 20th December. I gave So a meter reading but they told me it must be wrong because OFTM inform them it was higher. I sent them an image of the meter which now So have had to file a case against OFTM to prove my reading (via photograph) Today (7th) OFTM have taken £117 from my bank (I was in credit with them) which is unlawful. They not only owe me (which looks to drag on in a conflict with So) the credit, but now £117 on top of that. I cannot afford this. What can I do ?

Went onto OFTM chat and someone else took over. They instructed me to wait 30 seconds while they read through the previous transcript and I never heard from them again. The chat shut down after 30 mins.