Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Anthorn wrote: »

I really don't think E.ON controls the accounts of all energy suppliers or even the suppliers themselves and therefore E.ON does not speak for all energy suppliers. Further E.ON is not the energy ombudsman. But please do correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally, I think the E.ON representative should avoid such blanket definitions which quite clearly is not true.

My experience of my switch from Scottish Power as I posted earlier in this thread is that my switch to EDF completed on 10th December, SP took payment by DD on the usual due date of 24 December, a final bill was created, the account closed and refund of credit on 2 January.

I have switched every year for the last three years from Peterborough Energy (OVO) to Scottish Power to EDF and each time the switching process has been identical and I would hasten to add that if I continued to switch every year for the next umpteen years the switching process would similarly be identical.

But hey if anyone wants a supplier that they can switch from instantly and get a refund of credit instantly they should apparently go with E.ON.

Quentin wrote: »

No

You can't possibly say this in such an authoritative manner!

This thread isn't even discussing the company you are allowed to post answers about!

Others should not take this advice as being definitive!

Organza_Lace wrote: »

Theres got to be guidelines that all utility companies have to adhere to.

Sorry all. Thought I was helping anyone switching away from us by confirming orangesnap's experience with us above. To be clear, my comments only concern E.ON and have absolutely no relevance to any other supplier.

I've deleted my post and sorry again for any offence caused.

Malc

Anthorn

Organza_Lace wrote: »

Theres got to be guidelines that all utility companies have to adhere to.

Apart from consumer law there isn't as far as I know. What is common to most suppliers I've looked at is the three-weeks switch but just because a switch is completed in three weeks doesn't mean accounts will be closed and credit refunded or debit charged within that three weeks period.

What differs across suppliers are the Ts&Cs and policies of the individual suppliers and their individual implementation of their policies. For example for my own account with EDF their policy is that my account is dual fuel, I pay by direct debit and I must have smart meters installed by EDF. However I already have smart meters installed by Scottish Power and it appears that EDF has waived the smart meter part although they haven't specifically said so. And that brings us right back to the current discussion.

Anthorn

Steve456 wrote: »

I would dispute that they were "fully entitled to another payment".



Why were they?



They bill you a month in advance. They are aware that you have moved to another supplier and are therefore not entitled to bill in advance for energy which they know will not be supplied by them.


At the point of moving they should automatically stop their standard monthly billing and just issue a final statement as soon as they can

Because at the time of the switch, meter readings which are typically submitted on or around the date of the switch have not been not been shared with the old supplier and have not been verified and agreed. Therefore the old supplier at the time of the switch doesn't know the state of the account.

Moreover Ofgem supports energy suppliers maintaining a credit balance to pay for increased consumption during the winter months which is exactly what OFTM and others are doing:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/understand-your-gas-and-electricity-bills/energy-bill-credit-explained

The only problem with OFTM if indeed if it is a problem is that they implemented the process of building account credit late whereas they should have started it in the summer.

swindiff

The only problem lol

Steve456

Anthorn wrote: »

Because at the time of the switch, meter readings which are typically submitted on or around the date of the switch have not been not been shared with the old supplier and have not been verified and agreed. Therefore the old supplier at the time of the switch doesn't know the state of the account.

Moreover Ofgem supports energy suppliers maintaining a credit balance to pay for increased consumption during the winter months which is exactly what OFTM and others are doing:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/understand-your-gas-and-electricity-bills/energy-bill-credit-explained

The only problem with OFTM if indeed if it is a problem is that they implemented the process of building account credit late whereas they should have started it in the summer.

So, at the risk of repeating myself, why would the company need to bill a further month in advance when they are fully aware that they no longer supply that customer?


The key point here is that they bill in advance. In my case, supply from OFTM ceased on 20th December. They then took almost £200 by direct debit over a week later as payment for the month commencing the 28th December.


Let us suppose that we paid by cheque, or some other manual method, rather than giving them the power to grab money from our account. Would you pay an invoice, issued over a week after leaving them, for an advance payment for gas and electricity that they would never supply? I suppose you would judging by your posts to-date. I rather think that you might be the only one however!

Anthorn

Steve456 wrote: »

So, at the risk of repeating myself, why would the company need to bill a further month in advance when they are fully aware that they no longer supply that customer?


The key point here is that they bill in advance. In my case, supply from OFTM ceased on 20th December. They then took almost £200 by direct debit over a week later as payment for the month commencing the 28th December.


Let us suppose that we paid by cheque, or some other manual method, rather than giving them the power to grab money from our account. Would you pay an invoice, issued over a week after leaving them, for an advance payment for gas and electricity that they would never supply? I suppose you would judging by your posts to-date. I rather think that you might be the only one however!

I've already explained that: i.e. at the time of the switch they don't know the state of the account. Try reading my post that you quoted.

As I've already explained in my previous posts in this thread that twice with different energy suppliers I have been charged a direct debit payment after I have switched from that supplier. As I have said repeatedly OFTM is not at all unique and is simply doing what other suppliers do.

The key point here is not as you state: The key point is that you don't want to pay for the energy you use and you would prefer your account to go into debit when you use more energy in the winter months instead of building a credit balance to pay for increased consumption which is in fact supported by Ofgem - read back to my previous post for the link.

Steve456

Anthorn wrote: »

I've already explained that: i.e. at the time of the switch they don't know the state of the account. Try reading my post that you quoted.

As I've already explained in my previous posts in this thread that twice with different energy suppliers I have been charged a direct debit payment after I have switched from that supplier. As I have said repeatedly OFTM is not at all unique and is simply doing what other suppliers do.

The key point here is not as you state: The key point is that you don't want to pay for the energy you use and you would prefer your account to go into debit when you use more energy in the winter months instead of building a credit balance to pay for increased consumption which is in fact supported by Ofgem - read back to my previous post for the link.

1) At the time of the switch they did know, because I informed them at every stage.


2) I would be quite happy to pay monthly in arrears for actual usage. At least in that situation nobody is second-guessing what to charge.

rhino2k1980

I am so annoyed with outfox right now, Switched away from them to octopus which was completed about 3 weeks ago.
I was £200 in credit, and would have owed them a maximum of maybe £40 for 10 days usage, So was expecting a refund of £150 or so.
They have taken another £150 a few days ago, So now I am in credit £350! How on earth is this right?

Still waiting on a final bill ect and they are not talking to anyone from what I can gather, Waited on chat a long time and got fed up.

On top of all this octopus took an initial payment and then the next months payment on the same day as outfox, So I am nearly £200 in credit with them. Obviously I knew that was the deal with octopus but how on earth would a retired or low income family cope with this?

I have quite literally paid out £500 to energy suppliers in the last month....my annual usage has never been more than £800 :mad:

I should probably add that after reading up on the subject, It was advised that cancelling the DD with outfox was not a good idea and could lead to switching issues etc.

Is there any way I can force outfox to refund some of this money? Or am I going to have to wait the upto 8 weeks for a refund?

TIA

Cowlick94

rhino2k1980 wrote: »

I am so annoyed with outfox right now, Switched away from them to octopus which was completed about 3 weeks ago.
I was £200 in credit, and would have owed them a maximum of maybe £40 for 10 days usage, So was expecting a refund of £150 or so.
They have taken another £150 a few days ago, So now I am in credit £350! How on earth is this right?

Still waiting on a final bill ect and they are not talking to anyone from what I can gather, Waited on chat a long time and got fed up.

On top of all this octopus took an initial payment and then the next months payment on the same day as outfox, So I am nearly £200 in credit with them. Obviously I knew that was the deal with octopus but how on earth would a retired or low income family cope with this?

I have quite literally paid out £500 to energy suppliers in the last month....my annual usage has never been more than £800 :mad:

I should probably add that after reading up on the subject, It was advised that cancelling the DD with outfox was not a good idea and could lead to switching issues etc.

Is there any way I can force outfox to refund some of this money? Or am I going to have to wait the upto 8 weeks for a refund?

TIA

Ask your bank to reverse the DD highlighting that you are no longer a customer of OTM and that as you have a credit balance with them to cover off your final bill there was no need for them to take another DD.

That's what I did when OTM took a DD recently even though my switch away from them completed almost a month ago, and the money was back in my account the next day. They also advised that if OTM attempt to reclaim, then I should raise a case with my bank's Fraud department to investigate, given the variables mentioned (no longer a customer and account already having a credit balance).

Anthorn

rhino2k1980 wrote: »

Is there any way I can force outfox to refund some of this money? Or am I going to have to wait the upto 8 weeks for a refund?
TIA

Practically everything I've read on the subject states that it is an Ofgem rule that suppliers must refund account credit when the customer asks for it. But to date I have been unable to find that rule and those who specify that rule fail to link to it.

Remember, thanks to Ofgem rules, providers MUST repay any credit balances if you ask.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-4443310/How-refund-energy-supplier.html

What it comes down to is to follow the suppliers complaints procedure culminating in arbitration by Ofgem. However since Ofgem supports suppliers building credit balances in accounts that arbitration is unlikely to be successful.

Similar problem with EDF: I requested that DD payments be taken on the 15th of the month and they took a payment on 28th December and they have notified a further payment on 15th January and on the 15th day of every month thereafter. So effectively I'm paying in advance which is precisely what most people in this thread are complaining about when referring to OFTM.