Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

The_Green_Hornet

Anthorn wrote: »

I have already linked to that page in a previous post in this thread. That page is advice on account credit and does not quote rules. In fact the article points energy customers to Citizens Advice. As far as I can see the often quoted rule on promptly refunding credit doesn't exist.

Again from the Ofgem website:

Ofgem rules state that a customer can ask the supplier to refund their credit balance at any time and the supplier cannot unreasonably refuse this.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/ofgem-proposes-safety-net-consumers-cash

Steve456

Anthorn wrote: »

I have already linked to that page in a previous post in this thread. That page is advice on account credit and does not quote rules. In fact the article points energy customers to Citizens Advice. As far as I can see the often quoted rule on promptly refunding credit doesn't exist.

I think you will find all you need in the suppliers licence conditions.

Electricity:


https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk//Content/Documents/Electricity%20Supply%20Standard%20Licence%20Conditions%20Consolidated%20-%20Current%20Version.pdf



Gas:

https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk//Content/Documents/Gas%20supply%20standard%20licence%20conditions%20consolidated%20-%20Current%20Version.pdf

Mister_G

Steve456 wrote: »

I think you will find all you need in the suppliers licence conditions.

Electricity:


https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk//Content/Documents/Electricity%20Supply%20Standard%20Licence%20Conditions%20Consolidated%20-%20Current%20Version.pdf



Gas:

https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk//Content/Documents/Gas%20supply%20standard%20licence%20conditions%20consolidated%20-%20Current%20Version.pdf

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The_Green_Hornet

Anthorn wrote: »

I have already linked to that page in a previous post in this thread. That page is advice on account credit and does not quote rules. In fact the article points energy customers to Citizens Advice. As far as I can see the often quoted rule on promptly refunding credit doesn't exist.

You may also want to look at section 27.16 of the Supply Standard Licence Conditions:

27.16 Where any Credit has accumulated under a Domestic Supply Contract and the relevant Domestic Customer requests that the licensee do so, the licensee must, save where it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for the licensee not to do so, refund, in a timely manner any Credit which has accumulated under that Domestic Supply Contract to the relevant Domestic Customer. Where the licensee considers that it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for it not to refund any Credit which has accumulated under a Domestic Supply Contract in accordance with this provision, it must inform the relevant Domestic Customer of its view and of the reasons for holding that view.

In this condition, “Credit” means the amount by which the payments made by a Domestic Customer to the licensee under or in accordance with the relevant Domestic Supply Contract exceeds the total amount of Charges which is due and payable by that Domestic Customer to the licensee under that Domestic Supply Contract.

All this can be found on the Ofgem website if you look hard enough.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/licences-industry-codes-and-standards/licences/licence-conditions

Anthorn

The_Green_Hornet wrote: »

You may also want to look at section 27.16 of the Supply Standard Licence Conditions:

27.16 Where any Credit has accumulated under a Domestic Supply Contract and the relevant Domestic Customer requests that the licensee do so, the licensee must, save where it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for the licensee not to do so, refund, in a timely manner any Credit which has accumulated under that Domestic Supply Contract to the relevant Domestic Customer. Where the licensee considers that it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for it not to refund any Credit which has accumulated under a Domestic Supply Contract in accordance with this provision, it must inform the relevant Domestic Customer of its view and of the reasons for holding that view.

In this condition, “Credit” means the amount by which the payments made by a Domestic Customer to the licensee under or in accordance with the relevant Domestic Supply Contract exceeds the total amount of Charges which is due and payable by that Domestic Customer to the licensee under that Domestic Supply Contract.

All this can be found on the Ofgem website if you look hard enough.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/licences-industry-codes-and-standards/licences/licence-conditions

As I've said in previous posts the rule that energy companies must refund credit when asked by the customer does not exist and it still does not exist.

The key part of the provision is:

.. save where it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for the licensee not to do so, refund, in a timely manner any Credit which has accumulated under that Domestic Supply Contract to the relevant Domestic Customer

Since Ofgem supports energy suppliers building credit on accounts to account for upcoming increased consumption specifically in the winter months it is fair and reasonable for energy companies to not refund credit at this time of the year. Certainly, OFTM are not breaking the terms of that provision.

Conversely, customers who want a refund from OFTM would need to assert that refunding that credit is fair and reasonable.

editor1

@Anthorn,

No disrespect, but you keep quoting from the OFGEM regulatory Rule Book, which is fine if all utility supplies played via this Rule Book and actual simple contract law, the fact remains, when looking at OFTM, not only do you need to understand the provisions of the Rules of the Regulatory Body, but, you need to look at provisions within the 2015 Consumer Rights Act that apply to the provision of services via online websites, namely, is OFTM in Breach of these, which are detailed in a handy booklet for all businesses to understand clearly - on this basis, particularly in terms of 'contract fairness' OFTM has breached numerous Laws, hence, their unwillingness to engage with those instigating legal action via UK Courts, be it small claims or County Court's.

Anthorn

editor1 wrote: »

@Anthorn,

No disrespect, but you keep quoting from the OFGEM regulatory Rule Book, which is fine if all utility supplies played via this Rule Book and actual simple contract law, the fact remains, when looking at OFTM, not only do you need to understand the provisions of the Rules of the Regulatory Body, but, you need to look at provisions within the 2015 Consumer Rights Act that apply to the provision of services via online websites, namely, is OFTM in Breach of these, which are detailed in a handy booklet for all businesses to understand clearly - on this basis, particularly in terms of 'contract fairness' OFTM has breached numerous Laws, hence, their unwillingness to engage with those instigating legal action via UK Courts, be it small claims or County Court's.

It was The Green Hornet which quoted it. I responded to The Green Hornet's post. So your objection should be directed at The Green Hornet.

The answer to everything else is 42.

smipsy

i'm approaching 8 weeks since I've switched from Fox (to Toto), and I still don't have my final bill (and my credit refunded).

somehow I don't think something will happen, so what does one do in that case?

thanks in advance!

jk0

smipsy wrote: »

i'm approaching 8 weeks since I've switched from Fox (to Toto), and I still don't have my final bill (and my credit refunded).

somehow I don't think something will happen, so what does one do in that case?

thanks in advance!

When you get a bill from your new supplier, you will see what the initial readings used were. Then you can work out what OFTM owe you, and sue them if you think it worthwhile.

Anthorn

jk0 wrote: »

When you get a bill from your new supplier, you will see what the initial readings used were. Then you can work out what OFTM owe you, and sue them if you think it worthwhile.

Just because the new supplier has recorded meter readings doesn't mean that they communicated those readings to the old supplier. The old supplier needs those readings to produce the final bill. In fact wherever I come across a delay in producing a final bill it is claimed that those readings were not received.

It's a difficult one: Ofgem points aggrieved energy customers to Citizen's Advice. Energy is subject to consumer law which could be handled by Citizen's Advice but if you take that track you are likely to be referred to Ofgem.

Personally, I would just sit tight and wait to see what develops: Whatever happens your account credit should be safe.

Further, if OFTM has breached the terms of its supplier license we can expect Ofgem to issue its equivalent of "We're watching you sunshine" so look out for that and its repercussions if any.