International students are abandoning the UK

Lornapink

Meanwhile Japan, not without it's problems but richer per capita than we, manages perfectly well with low well managed immigration.
Unsustainably importing people is such a lazy 'fix' and has many downsides.


I do wish Remainers would stop thinking solely in terms of £ in their pockets.

Lornapink

Arklight wrote: »

The reason there is a skills shortage is a nurse has to spend 3 / 4 years studying to find that they're not valued very much and the salaries are very low for the qualifications and hours expected. Similar to teaching.

Why do you like most about encouraging nurses & Doctors to exit the worlds most impoverished nations where according to the World Bank some have just 1 Doctor per 33,000 citizens?

Presumably you get tearful when watching Lenny Henry showing us desperate orphans with acute medical needs and far too few nurses?


Who cares for the Rwandan orphaned infant that needs 24/7 physical care, perhaps emotionally damaged if greedy Brits have endorsed and encouraged having their vital Docs n nurses come to Britain?

Arklight

Lornapink wrote: »

Why do you like most about encouraging nurses & Doctors to exit the worlds most impoverished nations where according to the World Bank some have just 1 Doctor per 33,000 citizens?

Presumably you get tearful when watching Lenny Henry showing us desperate orphans with acute medical needs and far too few nurses?


Who cares for the Rwandan orphaned infant that needs 24/7 physical care, perhaps emotionally damaged if greedy Brits have endorsed and encouraged having their vital Docs n nurses come to Britain?

Non EU doctors can't practise here without passing the PLAB exams, which is nearly impossible for most people to do without going through medical school in the UK first.

I'm glad we agree that taxes should be raised so that we can pay our own nurses more and keep them in the profession rather than burning out hopeful migrants thinking they are coming for a better life.

Arklight

Lornapink wrote: »

Meanwhile Japan, not without it's problems but richer per capita than we, manages perfectly well with low well managed immigration.
Unsustainably importing people is such a lazy 'fix' and has many downsides.


I do wish Remainers would stop thinking solely in terms of £ in their pockets.

I used to live in Japan so I probably have more direct experience of this than you. Japan is not managing perfectly well with low immigration. They have a huge problem with a declining and ageing population. Medical care, particularly for the elderly, is very poor. Pensioners often resort to creating groups to peer care for one another because there simply aren't geriatric community services for them because there is no one to run them.

The ethnocentrism and ageing population are a cause of most of the economic and social malaise that Japan has been suffering for decades.

In one of the year I was there and other countries like France and Germany were registering asylum applications in excess of 100,000 people (much more than the UK btw), Japan took 52. Yes, 52 people. Grudgingly.

zagubov

This is just another symptom of the creepy America-envy that our leading politicians suffer from. This insane expansion of the university sector by repurposing perfectly-good polytechnics to become approximations of universities offering degrees in who-knows-what.

They could have expanded the Open University instead at far better cost.

Or they could restrict university places like north of the border where they supply fewer degrees but far more suitable higher education qualifications like HNCs HNDs DipHEs via the FE college sector which meet employers needs but costs less.

sann420

The UK treats international students specially from non EU countries like POW's. No wonder they are picking other countries over the UK, I dont blame them.

I knew a guy who after finishing his exams wasn't allowed to travel back to China to see his family for a week because he only had 3 months left on his student visa. Given that UK govt was not paying for his travels they had absolutely no right what so ever to stop a young man from seeing his family after a gruelling year of study and hard work.

This is just one example ... I am sure there are countless other horror stories out there. I wouldnt advise anybody from non EU countries to come to the UK to pay extortionate amounts and then be treated like criminals.

Cakeguts

Arklight wrote: »

If teenagers are deciding they would rather go to a university for three years and rack up a ton of debt doing a "worthless degree" than become a plumber or apprentice bricklayer, then there's probably a reason for that.

If, at the grand old age of 21 with only their useless degree to fend against the world, they still don't want to be an apprentice bricklayer, there's probably still a reason for that.

It might be that the building industry is just very inept at recruiting and training people, for instance. I'm not sure that's the fault of universities.

Nothing to do with industry or the universities. It starts in the schools where young people are encouraged to go to university and people doing apprenticeships or even worse trade apprenticeships are treated like failures.



There are better jobs in the trades than anyone can get from a degree in film, fashion, media studies, performing arts, drama, journalism, etc and yet still schools encourage young people to go to university rather than doing a trade apprenticeship. It is done because young people going to university looks better on the school league tables to stupid parents looking for a school than the successes of young people who have got good trade jobs.



Schools are supposed to educate. Part of that education should include the fact that you can earn £50k a year as a brick layer and only £15k a year after a film, fashion, performing arts, media studies, drama or journalism degree.

Arklight

Cakeguts wrote: »

Nothing to do with industry or the universities. It starts in the schools where young people are encouraged to go to university and people doing apprenticeships or even worse trade apprenticeships are treated like failures.



There are better jobs in the trades than anyone can get from a degree in film, fashion, media studies, performing arts, drama, journalism, etc and yet still schools encourage young people to go to university rather than doing a trade apprenticeship. It is done because young people going to university looks better on the school league tables to stupid parents looking for a school than the successes of young people who have got good trade jobs.



Schools are supposed to educate. Part of that education should include the fact that you can earn £50k a year as a brick layer and only £15k a year after a film, fashion, performing arts, media studies, drama or journalism degree.

Most of the degrees you list are part of Media. Media is one of the biggest industries on the planet. The website you typed your post into is part of the Media industry. Martin Lewis sold it for £87 million.

Every single person reading this is engaging with it as part of the Media industry and the monetised advertising and referrals raised by them doing so is part of the Media industry.

And you're suggesting this is ignored by higher education.

I fully agree with you that there should be more trade and manual jobs available for young people. Try not voting for neo-Thatcherism every time you get to the ballot box and they may come back.

Cakeguts

Arklight wrote: »

Most of the degrees you list are part of Media. Media is one of the biggest industries on the planet. The website you typed your post into is part of the Media industry. Martin Lewis sold it for £87 million.

Every single person reading this is engaging with it as part of the Media industry and the monetised advertising and referrals raised by them doing so is part of the Media industry.

And you're suggesting this is ignored by higher education.

I fully agree with you that there should be more trade and manual jobs available for young people. Try not voting for neo-Thatcherism every time you get to the ballot box and they may come back.

A media studies degree doesn't lead to a job in media just as film studies doesn't lead to a job in film. These degrees are about the subject not vocational qualifications in them. Lots of students are confused by this. Those students are the not very intelligent ones which is how the universities get them to study these subjects waste of time subjects in the first place.

evenasus

My grandson started his first year at Cambridge University in September. He told me there are more international students than UK ones.

When he went there earlier this year to take the STEP exams, there were 30 from UK sitting them. They were told that probably only 15 of them would be accepted. In the end there were only 4 offered a place.