International students are abandoning the UK

Arklight

Malthusian wrote: »

Both sides of Parliament think it's better for a son of a miner to go to a third-rate university, get a degree in Geography or Politics, and spend the rest of his life as an unskilled labourer under the stigma of a "debt" he'll never pay off, than learn to become a plumber or other skilled tradesman and earn £50,000+ a year.

Labour thinks that it's beneath him, and the Tories think it's above him.

80% of the universities in the UK should be appopriated by the taxpayer, razed to the ground, the land sold to developers, and the proceeds used to write off student "loans". If international students cottoning on to the fact that they're unwitting participants in a scam speeds up this day of reckoning, so much the better.

How many apprenticeships do you think are available? Your (fanciful) estimation for plumbers' salaries aren't going to survive 200,000 or so new entrants every year , and what does that have to do with international students?

Cakeguts

Round the corner from me there is a department of a UK dud university. It is on a very expensive piece of land that could be used for lots of other buildings of much greater use to the local community.



The fashion design course does not accept people with A levels so that gives you and idea of the level of education needed to get onto it. The BTEC entry requirements are DDM so very low in all aspects.



It then gives you a list of the jobs and companies that people go to work for probably at minimum wage but it looks good. I would imagine that most of the students finish up selling fashion in a shop. Very carefully the course information doesn't say what sort of jobs they get in these companies it just implies that they will work in fashion design not sweeping the floors or making teas. However it should be obvious that anyone who can get onto this fashion design course at this dud university is not going to become any sort of actual fashion designer and that is how this university is clever. It is attracting unintelligent students who are trying to avoid the very jobs that they will finish up doing by very clever advertising of the course. If it really was a successful way to get into the fashion industry it would be offering sandwich courses and entrance requirements of D*D*D* in BTEC. I consider this university to be scamming vulnerable stupid students which is why it works so well. Intelligent people do not apply to this university so it is making its money from the kind of student who would in the past have gone to a technical college. The technical college education would have been free.



The students at this university would not even need to do an apprenticeship to end up in the kind of jobs they are going to get. They could do them straight from school.



In with the course information there is a lot of information about how good you need to be at English. The International student information is there at the start. This is not good for the UK in general. This university is selling dud courses in fashion to international students as well as UK students. It needs to close and the land to be sold for housing or a hospital new department.

Uxb

Arklight wrote: »

Once the UK was seen as a beacon of learning open to the world. Now we risk becoming more seen as a lighthouse run by Old Man Steptoe grumbling about wanting to go to "'Olliday in Bognor."

Nope
Once the UK was seen as being stupid enough to educate foreign students who then go back to their own country and use their newly acquired inside knowledge to screw over the UK

Its almost like inviting your competitor over and showing them how you do the work and not dissimilar to those who were to be made redundant but not before they were told to explain to the offshore company taking over the work who to do it and train them up.

The British really are thik.....

Jonbvn

stator wrote: »

University educucation should be free and solely for students from the UK who are bright enough to go.

Are you serious??? How to kill all research in one fell swoop.

Cakeguts

Uxb wrote: »

Nope
Once the UK was seen as being stupid enough to educate foreign students who then go back to their own country and use their newly acquired inside knowledge to screw over the UK

Its almost like inviting your competitor over and showing them how you do the work and not dissimilar to those who were to be made redundant but not before they were told to explain to the offshore company taking over the work who to do it and train them up.

The British really are thik.....

What newly acquired knowledge? Most of the UK universities don't teach to traditional university standards they teach to old 6th form or technical college if you are lucky. Even the UK students can't do anything with their degrees.

Malthusian

Arklight wrote: »

How many apprenticeships do you think are available?

As many as are demanded. Demand is currently low due to artificial manipulation of the market.

Your (fanciful) estimation for plumbers' salaries

Facts are bourgeois hey. Nobody mentioned salaries except you. Everyone knows good plumbers aren't salaried.

aren't going to survive 200,000 or so new entrants every year ,

They won't get 200k entrants a year, as there are numerous other skilled and valuable trades crying out for more talent.

and what does that have to do with international students?

International students prop up the scam as they are conned into thinking that a degree in the UK must be good. And a few of course are here to play the visa system.

Enterprise_1701C

If that is the case then it is down to Blair.

He is the one that decided that more people should go to university. So many people are going to university now just for the sake of going, they then expected to be handed a job at the end of it and many are disappointed.

It used to be a case of go to one of our universities and you have something special. That is not the case anymore, a university degree is more the standard of the old A levels now. They had to dumb it down so people could actually pass the courses. And that is not taking into account the courses that have been invented for it.

And, of course, a lot of these people would have previously gone for apprenticeships, engineering, carpentry, bricklaying and the suchlike. Those industries are now crying out for people.

Yep, Blair did a darned good job of wrecking industry.

Arklight

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

If that is the case then it is down to Blair.

He is the one that decided that more people should go to university. So many people are going to university now just for the sake of going, they then expected to be handed a job at the end of it and many are disappointed.

It used to be a case of go to one of our universities and you have something special. That is not the case anymore, a university degree is more the standard of the old A levels now. They had to dumb it down so people could actually pass the courses. And that is not taking into account the courses that have been invented for it.

And, of course, a lot of these people would have previously gone for apprenticeships, engineering, carpentry, bricklaying and the suchlike. Those industries are now crying out for people.

Yep, Blair did a darned good job of wrecking industry.

If teenagers are deciding they would rather go to a university for three years and rack up a ton of debt doing a "worthless degree" than become a plumber or apprentice bricklayer, then there's probably a reason for that.

If, at the grand old age of 21 with only their useless degree to fend against the world, they still don't want to be an apprentice bricklayer, there's probably still a reason for that.

It might be that the building industry is just very inept at recruiting and training people, for instance. I'm not sure that's the fault of universities.

THE_Terry_Urr

Arklight wrote: »

It might be that the building industry is just very inept at recruiting and training people, for instance. I'm not sure that's the fault of universities.

Of course the influx of cheap ready-trained (mostly) eastern European labour had nothing at all to do with the reluctance to recruit and train our own.

Instead of taking the easy narrow viewpoint it always helps to look at the bigger picture.
Youngsters have had less choice because of examples like building trades, but nursing is another excellent example. For decades it's been cheap and easy to import nurses ready-trained compared to training our own.

Arklight

THE_Terry_Urr wrote: »

Of course the influx of cheap ready-trained (mostly) eastern European labour had nothing at all to do with the reluctance to recruit and train our own.

Instead of taking the easy narrow viewpoint it always helps to look at the bigger picture.
Youngsters have had less choice because of examples like building trades, but nursing is another excellent example. For decades it's been cheap and easy to import nurses ready-trained compared to training our own.

There are plenty of nurses trained in the UK. If you saw the intake of a normal UK university nursing course I expect you wouldn't consider the students to be "our own" but they're UK citizens or they wouldn't be allowed to enroll.

The reason there is a skills shortage is a nurse has to spend 3 / 4 years studying to find that they're not valued very much and the salaries are very low for the qualifications and hours expected. Similar to teaching.