Check history of teenager's MSN activity and conversations how?

emmaroids

if you dont trust your kids using the pc then maybe they shouldnt be using it??

Tao81

It's not my DD I don't trust it's others!
She's been keeping in touch on MSN (rather too often and for far too long a session at times IMO, so I was beginning to crack down) with a boy (13yrs) she met through a male school friend of hers. She's also been seeing him on and off occasionally in the company of his parents. She been swimming, playing badminton with him and his Mum, she has also spent time at his house during the day where, I have been firmly assured by the Mum over the phone, a parent is there for supervision at all times.

It took me a long time to be talked round into letting my DD go onto MSN and Bebo - So she's only been allowed to start using these sites fairly recently and after a lot of coaching and guidance on the potential risks involved.
I have a really good relationship with DD and so educating her on the subject has not been difficult as she seems to genuinely understand how vulnerable she can be on such sites and appears to be complying with my firm instruction not to give out any personal information to anyone even her school friends. I've told her that home phone number, mobile phone number, address, age, birthday all those details can be and must be, exchanged face to face at school and the reasons for this has been made very clear.

At the beginning her MSN chats with this boy friend all was fairly innocent and monosyllabic, I knew this as she would sit next to me on the sofa and tilt the computer to show me things that were on the screen occasionally, naturally this progressed into her disappearing into her bedroom because she wanted to use the webcam to video call him without interfering with Mum listening to a TV programme, reading a book, doing housework whilst listening to music, on the phone etc. etc.
Well, it's just not practical to be right beside them all the time is it??!! But I do do regular over the shoulder spot checks and have told her that I can retrace her every footprint on the computer (she thinks I can monitor her far more closely than I can!! Crucial to keep perpetuating this myth I feel as a parent of a child so young)

Then a couple of weeks ago on a Saturday, she was in her bedroom with a neigbourhood female friend (10yrs old) they were both at the computer whilst she was having a chat over MSN when this boy suddenly sent her a picture. I overheard her exclaim "Don't do that J****!, S****** is her with me and you shouldn't be doing that!" I immediately entered her room to investigate and she informed me that he had just sent her a pornographic image of a male and female having full on intercourse! (but bless her, she was trying to tell me in a coded way to protect her friend, which she thought/hoped hadn't seen the image) You can imagine my complete shock and horror particularly since she was in the company of someone elses young child who should never be exposed to such images and whom I feel responsible for whilst she is in my home!
I put my foot down and told her to blocked him right away and to leave it on that status until I had time to reflect on what I was going to do about it.

He went on holiday a few days after this incident and texted me from abroad to apologise and explained how upset his parents had been with him for doing such a thing when they found out (I assume he told them because he knew that I was so upset that I would have informed them if he didn't!), he stated that he realised how stupid he had been and promised that it would never happen again. I instructed my DD to leave him blocked within her MSN contacts list until further notice because I was so concerned and needed more time to think it through, I also wanted to endorse the fact that I was in charge and couldn't be got around that easily!

I have to say, I am still a little perturbed that neither one of his parents has taken the trouble, since coming back from their holiday, to ring and speak to me themselves to discuss what line they have taken and to reassure me that they will be monitoring his internet usage and will ensure that he toes the line and behaves himself?!! Which would have been my approach had the boot been on the other foot! Or am I overreacting???!!!! I do appreciate that we all parent differently and that I mustn't assume that their silence over this matter automatically demonstrates that they aren't as concerned as I am that this happened?
According to my daughter he does have restrictions applied to his internet access but he had sneakily got round the administrators password or found out the password without their knowledge and she informs me that they have changed the password so that he can't view these types of images in the future (but teenagers are very switched on and perhaps he has the insight on how to bypass such things however many times the password is changed??!! Who knows? )

When he got back last week he rang her to say that he had brought her back a pressie from his hols and could she come over and spend the day with him on Saturday........I hesitated but my DD assured me that his Mum and Dad would be at home as usual and that he was genuinely really sorry, so I let her go and picked her up at six that evening. All seems back to normal, except for how I am still feeling that is???!! I don't wish to intrude on my DD's privacy, but she is only 13 and I'd like to monitor the situation for a while to reassure myself that he is behaving appropriately.
I don't feel happy with her spending so much time with him, and I have still barred her from chatting with him via MSN, so they've been keeping touch by phone (but my decision is as much based on the fact that he is on MSN almost constantly from the time he gets home from school and my DD was expecting to do the same and quite frankly I don't want that for my child) but equally I am aware that if I continue with a total ban, then she will potentially start making up stories that she is going to meet her school girl friend(s) and in fact be secretly making arrangements to meet up with him?

I came home the other day to find her on MSN chatting to him, she had unblocked his address and thought that she would quickly block his contact again before I noticed ........but there's no flies on this old dog!! and we had the whole respect and trust issue show-down for the umpteenth time!
I have explained that although I am still unhappy about what he did, that principally I would like his contact blocked because he is encouraging her to spend an inordinate amount of time online and that I am not happy with as it means I spend less quality time with her, homework gets backlogged, bedtime rolls back beyond reasonable bounds and what for?!! ...... Monosyllabic drivel night after night, hour after hour?!!

Having said that, I've been here ages typing this essay........Elbow nudge in the ribs!.......WAKEY... WAKEY!!!!:o

Sorry to go on, but this has to be the most difficult period of parenting I've had to endure so far! Does anyone know how to turn the clock back and make time stand still please??

THANKS FOR LISTENING to those peops who managed this marathon post! :rotfl: xxxx

Psychofly

I understand your concerns but from an outsiders point of view I'd like to make a few points. I'm not a parent so I don't pretend to be any sort of authority on the matter however I would say that not being emotionally attached in any way here and being closer to your daughters age than you are I hope you'll view my post with an open mind.

It's seems to me that your daughter has her head screwed on however only you will know what she's really like - nobody here knows her but you. I understand where you are coming from when you say that it's not your daughter you don't trust it's the boy friend. However do you really trust her as much as you think you do ? Do you trust her that if this boy put her into a situation she didn't want to be in she'd react in the way you'd hope she would ? I have doubts from what you've said that his parents genuinely know what he's done in sending that picture. One saving grace from this situation is that she is safe in your house during these conversations and not meeting him outwith the house alone. To you the never-ending monosyllabic conversations might seem pointless but I bet to your daughter they mean a lot. Not only is it helping her build a relationship but I bet she's getting a kick out of the interest from this boy. That might not seem like a good thing to you but at her age it's going to happen and you'll never control it totally. Like I said though it's happening with the internet distancing them so this is much safer than 13 year olds who disappear at night and meet boys and friends with or without there parents knowledge.

I think a lot of credit should go to your daughter for confiding in you the sort of image he was sending her. The webcam is one place where I WOULD put my foot down. Personally I see no reason for webcams in this sort of situation particularly when it means she disappears to her room to use it.

Why not have the boy over to see your daughter at your house a few times ? Get to know him a little yourself. At the end of the day most boys his age probably are looking at pornographic images whenever they get the chance - it's totally natural and although I think it should be made as difficult as possible for them to do this, they'll find a way. It's the modern day equivalent of finding a Playboy on the street and keeping it for 5 years hidden away ! Admittedly the images on the internet can be much more graphic but I wouldn't image he's doing anything vastly different from any other boy his age and if your daughter is mature enough to tell him to pack it in when he sends her an image like that then you should be proud of the daughter you've raised.

Personally I think given the relationship you appear to have with your daughter I would say the biggest mistake you could make is to read her MSN conversations. I'm not exaggerating when I say that if she found out it would be the same level of invasion of privacy as if you read her diary or stuck a listening bug in her bag when she went to school. It would seriously damage your relationship which I bet from both sides is built partly on a certain of trust.

Telling her things like you can track everything she does isn't likely to help since I can virtually guarantee that she'll mention it to someone at school who'll tell her that's impossible - or at least how to check that you're not doing that. It's more likely to tell her that you don't know enough about computers to do that in the first place so I'd be honest with her. Tell her you can't monitor her every move but you're concerned about the events that have occurred and about how her life has changed since she started constantly chatting. Point out the late nights, the homework, the lack of quality time you feel you get with her now. Tell her you respect her right to privacy and that you were worried enough to consider recording her MSN conversations but realised that would betray her trust so have decided it's not the right thing to do. Ask her to respect your right as a mother to be concerned for her daughter and to think of you and your feelings before she does anything you might not approve of. She'll probably appreciate the honesty.

I think the best solution would be to work out a compromise with her. Tell her you're willing to let her unblock him from MSN but that you don't want her talking to him hidden in her room or on a webcam. Explain that you're trusting her that his parents know what he did and that if anything like that ever happens again you'll contact his parents directly whether he claims to have told them or not. If you give her that bit of a leeway and trust in this she doesn't sound like the sort of daughter who'd abuse that - you're gut feeling will tell you that. Try suggesting to her things you could do together to get back that quality time and tell her that any MSN conversations will be done after homework and not before and that bedtime is not negotiable. Set a cutoff half an hour before so she knows when the conversation must end and make sure you enforce it.

I hope I don't sound preachy or anything. I'm just going by how I would like to be treated in her situation and how my parents treated me when I was her age. I'd like to think it's what I'd do in your situation but I won't know unless the time comes.

Good luck with and keep us up to date.

wakandem

Unfortunately kids grow up. The ages 9 to 18 are twice as quick as 0 to 9.

I would very strongly advise against reading their conversations. Speak to the kids and get them to speak to you about what they do online. If they were to try and meet someone they 'met' online you need to be sure there is enough trust between you for them to want to talk to you about it rather than sneak off and do it anyway.

I am afraid they all go through a stage of
'i'll show you my bits if you show me yours' and when I think back all that time ago when i was a teenager i probably would be the same, but internet was not invented.

If you were to look at your kids diary, listen to their phone conversations. and god forbid look at their text messages then you will lose their trust and make a bigger hole for yourself & msn is no different.

Untill my kids were 15 they didn't have internet in their rooms, After that it was totally up to them what they did online. Trust has got to work both ways.

Tao81

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

grae-UK I decided yesterday not to spy and infringe my DD privacy by monitoring her MSN conversations until I read through the following post this morning :eek: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=508103 Now not so sure I'll stick to my decision, this is really making me edgy and stressed as once you let them use these bl00dy programs you start feeling disempowered regarding keeping your child safe!!! (took me two years of nagging to decide she was old enough and I was being over controlling not to allow her once she had reached 13!:rolleyes: ).
Thanks for pointing out the feature within MSN that flags up conversations are being logged and the ease at which the user can switch this facility off sco0ter.

Psychofly wrote: »

I understand your concerns but from an outsiders point of view I'd like to make a few points. I'm not a parent so I don't pretend to be any sort of authority on the matter however I would say that not being emotionally attached in any way here and being closer to your daughters age than you are I hope you'll view my post with an open mind.

Yeah, I do try to be as open-minded as I can so really glad to here your perspective psychofly thanks

It's seems to me that your daughter has her head screwed on however only you will know what she's really like - nobody here knows her but you. I understand where you are coming from when you say that it's not your daughter you don't trust it's the boy friend. However do you really trust her as much as you think you do ? Do you trust her that if this boy put her into a situation she didn't want to be in she'd react in the way you'd hope she would ?

No parent could be absolutely sure about this, however well they know their child, as often a child can get so embarrassed by the content of what has been said to them or sent that they don't want to, or know how to tell you, children also often attempt to protect their parents from distress, not wanting to upset you, even though as an adult you would prefer to know whatever happens.

I have doubts from what you've said that his parents genuinely know what he's done in sending that picture. One saving grace from this situation is that she is safe in your house during these conversations and not meeting him outwith the house alone.

I am inclined to agree with you here, I feel very doubtful that they were actually told the truth as neither of them have spoken to me or my daughter about it, she visited their home last Saturday....So what's going on I'd be the first to apologise and assure the other parties that my child wouldn't do it again, if the boot was on the othe foot!

To you the never-ending monosyllabic conversations might seem pointless but I bet to your daughter they mean a lot. Not only is it helping her build a relationship but I bet she's getting a kick out of the interest from this boy. That might not seem like a good thing to you but at her age it's going to happen and you'll never control it totally. Like I said though it's happening with the internet distancing them so this is much safer than 13 year olds who disappear at night and meet boys and friends with or without there parents knowledge.

Yes, it is my wish not to be too controlling and stunt her social development and realise that if I clamp down too hard on MSN there are plenty of other mediums young people can use to sent these sort of things to her if they choose!

I think a lot of credit should go to your daughter for confiding in you the sort of image he was sending her.

But, if I hadn't happened to over hear her exclamation of shock and her subsequent retaliation at his act from my vantage point then I wouldn't have had the opportunity to immediately go in and investigate exactly what had taken place and it may never of been mentioned to me, due to her being too embarrassed to tell me!

The webcam is one place where I WOULD put my foot down. Personally I see no reason for webcams in this sort of situation particularly when it means she disappears to her room to use it.

Yeah, but she just innocently views it as a means of seeing him whilst talking, which naturally makes things more interesting whilst exchanging their monosyllabic text! I have asked her not to do ithis in future and she has complied and deleted him from her contacts list, but still wants to use the webcam with her girl friends from school.

Why not have the boy over to see your daughter at your house a few times ? Get to know him a little yourself. At the end of the day most boys his age probably are looking at pornographic images whenever they get the chance - it's totally natural and although I think it should be made as difficult as possible for them to do this, they'll find a way. It's the modern day equivalent of finding a Playboy on the street and keeping it for 5 years hidden away ! Admittedly the images on the internet can be much more graphic but I wouldn't image he's doing anything vastly different from any other boy his age and if your daughter is mature enough to tell him to pack it in when he sends her an image like that then you should be proud of the daughter you've raised.

I know this sort of immature behaviour and viewing of sexually elicit material is common by young teenage boys.
They have both been spending time together supervised by myself or his parents but, maybe because I am finding it difficult to let go, I'm not feeling very easy about her wanting to spend so much time with a boy, at the tender age of 13, I am being over protective I know, but it only takes one act of stupidity for her to be compromised! She's certainly not naive but she is young for her age by today's standards! Which I try to encourage because I don't want her growing up too fast, being a child only lasts so long and it's such a short spell in our lives so should be enjoyed not squandered.

Personally I think given the relationship you appear to have with your daughter I would say the biggest mistake you could make is to read her MSN conversations. I'm not exaggerating when I say that if she found out it would be the same level of invasion of privacy as if you read her diary or stuck a listening bug in her bag when she went to school. It would seriously damage your relationship which I bet from both sides is built partly on a certain of trust.

I was inclined to agree until I read the thread above see link.
I never read her diaries or snoop around in her bedroom, but MSN is a totally different ball game?!!
Telling her things like you can track everything she does isn't likely to help since I can virtually guarantee that she'll mention it to someone at school who'll tell her that's impossible - or at least how to check that you're not doing that.
Good point
It's more likely to tell her that you don't know enough about computers to do that in the first place so I'd be honest with her. Tell her you can't monitor her every move but you're concerned about the events that have occurred and about how her life has changed since she started constantly chatting. Point out the late nights, the homework, the lack of quality time you feel you get with her now. Tell her you respect her right to privacy and that you were worried enough to consider recording her MSN conversations but realised that would betray her trust so have decided it's not the right thing to do. Ask her to respect your right as a mother to be concerned for her daughter and to think of you and your feelings before she does anything you might not approve of. She'll probably appreciate the honesty.

I do chat with her and have said all of the above, so she knows I want to be able to trust her and what that involves. I set very firm boundaries where discipline is concerned and stick to my word, however, she does know she can always talk to me (and does) if she thinks I am being too hard line and things need to be renegotiated to accommodate her wishes more reasonably.

I think the best solution would be to work out a compromise with her. Tell her you're willing to let her unblock him from MSN but that you don't want her talking to him hidden in her room or on a webcam. Explain that you're trusting her that his parents know what he did and that if anything like that ever happens again you'll contact his parents directly whether he claims to have told them or not. If you give her that bit of a leeway and trust in this she doesn't sound like the sort of daughter who'd abuse that - you're gut feeling will tell you that.

She took the wind out of my sails this morning by informing me and showing me that she has deleted him from her contacts list. She still wants to see him as a friend though and is going into town tomorrow (with a friend and he will have a friend of his with him) so it's a mixed message for me in a way?!

Try suggesting to her things you could do together to get back that quality time and tell her that any MSN conversations will be done after homework and not before and that bedtime is not negotiable. Set a cutoff half an hour before so she knows when the conversation must end and make sure you enforce it.

Done. She's only been on MSN for very short spells this week and only to her a couple of girls she knows at school. I've been feeling a lot happier because I can actually spend time with her and have the normal girlie chats and catch up on what's been happening at school etc., plus the homework has regained it's rightful place as the most important priority.....Phew;) Lets hope it stays this way?!!

I hope I don't sound preachy or anything. I'm just going by how I would like to be treated in her situation and how my parents treated me when I was her age. I'd like to think it's what I'd do in your situation but I won't know unless the time comes.

so kind of you to let me know how it is from a young persons viewpoint, thanks a million. :A

Good luck with and keep us up to date.

This boy rings my daughter everyday on the home phone or her mobile the minute she gets home from school and asks to see her every weekend these days. I have discussed this with her and told her how unhappy I am with her spending so much time with a boy friend at her age, she understands but in a childish way wants to carry on with the arrangement (she says when she is over at his house there has always been one of his male friends there too). She is getting a buzz out of the attention which is natural, but I will be clamping down a little on the frequency of their liasons I have decided, but do this gradually to make it as painless as possible for her and hopefully she will simply lose interest over time with having less contact.......or is that just wishful thinking??!!!
I've told her that I wouldn't expect her to have a boyfriend that she sees this often until she was at least 15 or 16, is that too old fashioned?!! But I feel as a Mum I am responsible for her welfare and therefore have to draw a line in the sand somewhere whilst she is so young and because so many other parents are letting their kids grow up far too fast and supervising them so little to boot, I feel it is even more imperative I keep close tabs on my DD activities and pursuits!!:rolleyes:

Thanks again for all the replies

hobo28

I can't help feel the root cause here is not the Internet and/or MSN access but the fact your DD is growing up and you as a mother are struggling to know where to as you put it "draw a line in the sand". I completely empathise as my DD is 11 and is also using MSN a lot. Fortunately no boys......YET!

I remember when I were a kid, it wasn't uncommon for people to be "going out" with each other at 13. 15 or 16 I think is wishful thinking on your part really. It will happen when it happens. With all the media nowadays, probably younger than with our generation.

On the technology side, I'd advise not using monitoring. Reason is that your DD will know more than you. Even if she doesnt, her friends will. Then all you have is a false sense of security.

Just ban the computer from her room, put it in a family area and ride out the inevitable storm.

As an aside I did log my daughter's MSN conversations and the few times I tried to read it, completely failed. Perhaps I am old but I have a need to read words in English and cannot cope with txt spk and pigswill. It was like a teenage version of encryption which adults cannot cope with!

nej

Just because you can record them, doesn't mean you'll understand them! I don't get most of what my daughter says to her friends.

I don't monitor it, but have told her that I can see exactly what has gone on if I want to. It helps that I'm a computer programmer by profession so she knows she can't out-tech me on the PC!

Tao81

So all I can really do is sit back and let her get on with it and hope for the best then?!! I read this thread yesterday and Dumbledore55 wouldn't have had any awareness of this incident if she hadn't know how to retrace her sons conversations etc.http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=508103
Frightens the life out of me reading this, you never know what sort of contact may be made with them! :eek: I'm back to square one and again feeling like banning it completely!!!!

bookduck

How about a different approach yet again?

Don't ban her from viewing, but ban the sites and make it just that little harder. Modify the host file on the pc - look below and you can always add to the file from other sources too

http://www.bluetack.co.uk/forums/index.php?autocom=faq&CODE=02&qid=16
http://www.hostsfile.org/hosts.html
http://www.schooner.com/~loverso/no-ads/
http://www.bluetack.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=1362&hl=!!!!!!
http://www.technospot.net/blogs/five-best-!!!!!!-blockers/
http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/cens2.html
*** http://www.radiance.m6.net/ **** have a read


and pac files http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/03/30/hosts.html?page=2

think you should be able to disable msn etc at the router side too.

There are always ways around around though.

Have a friend that found his 12 year old playing quake on-line with a 30+ year old bloke with at least no shirt on + a web cam on each other, but for some funny reason that site was no longer visible the next day

Debt_Free_Chick

Tao81 wrote: »

So all I can really do is sit back and let her get on with it and hope for the best then?!! I read this thread yesterday and Dumbledore55 wouldn't have had any awareness of this incident if she hadn't know how to retrace her sons conversations etc.http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=508103
Frightens the life out of me reading this, you never know what sort of contact may be made with them! :eek: I'm back to square one and again feeling like banning it completely!!!!

Slightly OT from your original concern .... but

What I'm about to post is going to sound critical of Dumbledore and really don't intend that. But I think there's an important lesson to learn from that other thread.

Dumbledore said that her son had wanted to tell her about the incident, but was afraid that she would ban him (from MSN or the PC entirely ... can't recall).

The one thing that would make all the difference in these situations is if kids would simply call out to their mum or dad the minute it happens. If there are barriers to them doing this, then this is the thing to work on.

I think you have to work on the assumption that kids WILL be contacted by some !!!!!! at some point. It's how they handle that initial contact which is absolutely critical to "what happens next". Either, they tell you immediately - and effectively admit to themselves that they don't want any further contact - or they don't .... and there's a huge risk that the "conversation" will continue. If not then, then at some other time.

You have to work jolly hard to be convinced that they understand why you need to know (and it is a "need" to know not simply a "want" to know). If you can be sure that your child would tell you, it's at that point I think you can feel confident about their use of the internet, without the need for constant monitoring or questioning.

They have to understand why you need to know - and why they have to tell you.

Quite often, kids think parents are simply being nosey or "not in the real world" .... when it's they who are not in the real world (naturally, at that age). You don't need to go into gruesome, sordid details - but you do need to tell them enough for them to understand.

HTH