MOTO Southwaite charge for sleeping in car

Coupon-mad

Because there is no law applicable in Scotland that can hold you liable as registered keeper, and nor can a parking firm in England file a MoneyClaim Online at you, as you are also out of jurisdiction from the English courts.

So you are bulletproof.

Just do NOT imply who was driving.

Do exactly as advised, use the NEWBIES thread appeal, and IMHO CP Plus will fold in November, because they are useless.

beamerguy

Shones_forum wrote: »

so what is the significance of the Manchester to Scotland? lease tell me how simple this could be?

It all started with the motorway drive and someone figured out you could be in Scotland.

You have confirmed that so follow what coupon-mad has said.

Rules in Scotland are different to the south whereby they need to know who was driving before it goes further ..... they don't

System

Because there is no law applicable in Scotland that can hold you liable as registered keeper,

The location of the car park sets the law, not the location of the Keeper. In this case, if it went to court, Keeper Liability would apply.

Shones_forum

Thank you. Shall find that template.

Castle

IamEmanresu wrote: »

The location of the car park sets the law, not the location of the Keeper. In this case, if it went to court, Keeper Liability would apply.

Only if the court was in England or Wales.

Shones_forum

Just one more question. I have cut and pasted the template below, but should this be signed with the real name and address of the keeper? Because, at the bottom it seems to say 3 different things. So whose signature should it be?


1. THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.



2. DO NOT PUT YOUR NAME HERE INSTEAD, IF YOU ARE NOT THE KEEPER/HIRER/LESSEE. YOU ARE NOT HELPING IF YOU DO THIS WRONG BY APPEALING IN THE WRONG NAME!




3,NO NEED TO USE YOUR REAL SIGNATURE





Re PCN number:


I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.


Since your PCN is a vague template, I require all photos taken, a clear image of the signage and an explanation of the allegation (e.g. if you have identified a wrong VRN input at a machine, say so, and explain why your Data Protection Officer has not simply rectified it, rather than trying to punish a driver for a matter where there is nothing to deter).


I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP, appraising all parties of the debate where Parliament agreed: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''. Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and that 'we make it up most of the time' (BBC Watchdog).


Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service.


Yours faithfully,



THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.


DO NOT PUT YOUR NAME HERE INSTEAD, IF YOU ARE NOT THE KEEPER/HIRER/LESSEE. YOU ARE NOT HELPING IF YOU DO THIS WRONG BY APPEALING IN THE WRONG NAME!


NO NEED TO USE YOUR REAL SIGNATURE

Coupon-mad

Why haven't you added the line I said to add about Scotland?

I have no idea why you find who signs it confusing, (CLEARLY KEEPER OR HIRER NOT THE DRIVER!) but so what really, as you won't be signing/posting a letter anyway! CP Plus PCNs give an online or email option to appeal don't they, in which case the keeper does that and avoids any box suggesting they were the driver (of course).

KeithP

Shones_forum wrote: »

THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

DO NOT PUT YOUR NAME HERE INSTEAD, IF YOU ARE NOT THE KEEPER/HIRER/LESSEE. YOU ARE NOT HELPING IF YOU DO THIS WRONG BY APPEALING IN THE WRONG NAME!

NO NEED TO USE YOUR REAL SIGNATURE

I can see no contradiction there.

It clearly says that the appeal should sign off with the name of the keeper or hirer, with the keeper or hirer's postal address.

It then goes on to reinforce that by saying don't sign off the appeal if you are not the keeper or hirer.

Thirdly, it is suggesting that you use a nondescript signature - just a squiggle is good enough.

Coupon-mad

Yes but no squiggle needed online!

Stanza1234

There seem to be conflicting views on whether a registered keeper domiciled in Scotland can legally be pursued for an alleged event in England. Is there any consensus on this? Or is it just the complexity for the operator of pursuing a civil claim in the Scottish courts that prevents its happening?

I am the registered keeper in a similar situation (the driver slept in the car for 2 "excess" hours at Southwaite Moto during a long journey from the South of England to Scotland.) I have already submitted - as the registered keeper - an appeal based on the Charge Notice being dated/delivered 15/17 days after the alleged overstay, but it would be useful to get the England/Scotland legal issue resolved if the appeal goes to the next stage, as I guess it will.