BW Legal Court Claim

Sayn

Hello Everyone


I have been reading up on this forums for the past couple of months and trying to follow the advice given by the experts as much as possible. I have just decided to join the site so that I could post my personal experience that I am currently going through with these horrible leeches that call themselves BW Legal, NCP and Trace.
I received a Parking charge notice back in March 2018 after My vehicle was photographed by an ANPR camera entering and leaving a retail car park. There is a pay machine at this car park and I believe the driver had not paid for parking for the 20 odd minutes that they were in that car park according to the letters from NCP, Trace and now BW legal.
Now after ignoring the letters as mentioned in these threads and this going on for months then receiving the letter before claim I sent BW legal and NCP an SAR and also the request for more information from BW legal asking for the usual photos of vehicle, signs, contract of landowner etc. They replied with a letter which I have seen many similar ones posted on here about the contravention date, time, legal fees added etc
I received a claim form a few days ago and I have sent the AOS back to them and now I am stuck as to what to write for my defence. I have never admitted to being the driver of the vehicle and I'm just not sure what to do. I feel I should have just paid the earlier fees they demanded as now it has gone so far that it has reached court and I am having to spend a lot of time and stressed over this matter. Can anyone help on how should I defend this. I have read up a lot and know how to set out the defence and where to send it etc.. but I need to know what the best reason to defend this would be? Any advice is highly appreciated and I would like to beat these guys just so that it's another smack in their face for treating people so cruelly with their extortionate claims and fees. Please help

Redx

read post #10 in this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5905118/writing-a-defence-for-this-seems-tricky

ideally, read ALL of it

read recent posts by BARGEPOLE including defences he has honed or rewrote

and without you posting various info nobody can tell you, see my post #2 in this thread for why

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5913602/served-with-court-claim-by-vcs

lastly, read and digest post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread too


not paying on a p&d car park is very difficult to defend

Sayn

Hello Redx


Thank you for your response. Sorry I was brief in my last post on the details as I was writing this at work and it was time to finish my shift so I didn't have much time to put more details in.


I have read some of the posts you mentioned but will need to read all of them. I am also being careful in what I write on here as I don't want to be identified or anything used against me if I end up attending court.


My claim form was received on 19th Oct and I sent my AOS off on 22nd October. (Not sure if they have received it, but is there any way to check just incase they haven't??)


The claim was for over £240. I believe from what you have said that I won't be able to win this now as basically the parking wasn't paid for on the P&D machine and the driver was there for over 15 minutes.
What I would like to know is even if they win would I have to pay all the £240+ or is there a chance of me paying less if I defend it as they have no right to claim the £60 made up legal fees as that is the only reason for me to defend this so they don't get the full amount they are claiming for.


Also if they don't turn up to court would I win the case even with a weak defence or can they extend the time somehow to drag this out further as I just want this whole thing over and done with if there is little chance of getting anything positive out of it.


I have left all the paperwork at home so cannot remember exactly what dates I received the letters from BW legal, NCP etc.. and what they have put in the particular of the claim but I will get more info so that there is a clearer picture of whats gone on.


Sorry if I seem oblivious but I have never attended court before or had anything to do with this sort of thing and I am just learning as I go along and am thankful for all those that are helping on here.


I also mentioned before that I sent the SAR to NCP and BW legal. they both have responded about that but I don't believe they supplied all the information that was requested. Any ideas what to do next in response to that i.e get them into trouble for sharing my info. Who do I contact? etc..


Also has anyone ever won a case where they had parked without paying and what defence did they use?


So far I haven't mentioned the driver but the Car in question is registered to me and I am the only driver on it but I know some insurances say people can drive other cars as long as the car is insured so would I be able to defend this as saying the car is used by a number of different people or is that out of the question?


Thanks again for all your help and I will be back after doing some more reading and trying to put something together as a defence.

KeithP

I know you say you have 'sent off' the AoS, but you might be a good idea to follow the online method as well - see below.


With a Claim Issue Date of 19th October, you have until Wednesday 7th November to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Wednesday 21st November 2018 to file your Defence.

Nearly four weeks. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

1) Print your Defence.
2) Sign it and date it.
3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.


This short video might be useful too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU

Sayn

Also if I appear in court do I need to take pictures of any signage or any other paperwork for my defence. BW legal and NCP both did not supply any pictures of signage or landowner contracts or any pictures of my car parked in a bay etc.. Can any of this be used against them by me in my defence?


Can someone take this scenario and tell me how you would defend it?


The driver uses a retail car park many times and each time they park there even though there is a pay and display machine they don't use it as the car park is mostly empty and they are not there for long. Usually they see a warden but drive away at that point.
One day they go to the same car park with a friend and park in a bay near the back. There is no Warden there. The friend gets out and goes to the shop while the driver waits in the car. after about 20 minutes the friend returns and they leave.
A few days or weeks later the owner of the car receives a PCN which has a picture of the vehicle entering and exiting the car park and says no payment was made.
The registered driver ignores these letters from NCP as the driver thinks they are unenforceable. The letter keep arriving with the fine going up and then more letters come from Trace and then it is passed on to BW Legal with the fine at £160 now but the letters are still ignored.
BW Legal then send a LBC and threaten court action. The defendant then sends BW legal a letter asking them to send all information as required according to POPLA i.e pictures of car in the bay, contract of landowner, pictures of signage, etc..
Also a SAR is sent to BW Legal and to NCP.
BW Legal send back some information about the contravention date/ time/ place etc.. but no pictures or contract between landowner etc..
BW Legal then send out photocopies of all the letters they had previously sent, along with other jargon about the way they operate etc. On the same day a Claim form is also received with Particulars mentioning the date/ time/ place of contravention and that no payment was made while parked there and no attempt made to make payment. The fine has also gone up to over £240 stating it now includes legal representative and court fees as well as £160 previously for fine and their fees.
A day or 2 later a letter is received from BW legal saying a court claim form would be received by me even though it had already been received earlier.


A few days after that NCP has sent their paperwork copies of their original letter of the PCN with pistures of the vehicle entering/ leaving the carpark.


At this point the AOS has been sent and now a defence needs to be established.


How do I beat these guys? How can they justify these fees? How do I pay them as little as possible if nothing?


I hope this makes my predicament a little clearer and Please let me know if there is no defence here and I should just pay up and end this now.


I let this fine build up by refusing to acknowledge these people by following advice from these forums so what is my next step to take in how to defend this?


PS. Before anyone says it, yes the driver should have paid the P&D and in hindsight things wouldn't have reached this stage but hey ho this is one of those things to learn from but the extortionate fees that have been added on are certainly not fair at all.

KeithP

Sayn wrote: »

Also if I appear in court do I need to take pictures of any signage or any other paperwork for my defence.

A Defence is purely narrative.

Evidence comes at a later stage, along with your Witness Statement.

This is all explained in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Coupon-mad

I believe from what you have said that I won't be able to win this now as basically the parking wasn't paid for on the P&D machine and the driver was there for over 15 minutes.

That's not what Redx said, which was:

not paying on a p&d car park is very difficult to defend

No-one said you won't win, and if you can show in later evidence, that the signs were not clear, you can win!

What I would like to know is even if they win would I have to pay all the £240+ or is there a chance of me paying less if I defend it as they have no right to claim the £60 made up legal fees as that is the only reason for me to defend this so they don't get the full amount they are claiming for.

If you lose you can certainly dispute the added sums - the £60 and the £50 - like everyone else does in defences you see here. You would most likely be told to pay some £175, if you were one of the 1% rare losses seen on this forum, and that would be that.

No CCJ, nothing bad, scam over and less than the claim.

But take heart, it might be difficult in your case (unless the signs were unclear) but 99% of people win when they stick around and see through ALL stages, but you really do need to read the 'IMPORTANT - know what happens when' section of the NEWBIES THREAD post #2 if you have not yet got your head around when evidence is filed & served.

Sayn

Thank you guys for your help, it is highly appreciated. I haven't had a day off work in the last 10 days so haven't been very active on here and also not even started a defence yet. I did send my AOS off within 1 day of receiving it but wanted to check if they had received it but the MCOL website was asking for a defence request password as well as the claim no. from the claim form but there is no defence password on there so not sure how to log in to check whats going on with it.



Also I didn't put my Particulars of Claim on here which may help you guys see what they are claiming for so here it is:



Particulars of Claim


The claimants claim is for the sum of 24*.** being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for a parking contravention which occurred on **/**/**** in the private car park/land located at ****** *****Road******8, in relation to a vehicle, ****** registration mark ********. The defendant was allowed 28 days from the PCN Date to pay the PCN, but failed to do so.

Despite demand having been made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
The claim also includes statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum (a daily rate of 0.04 from **/**/**** to **/**/**** being an amount of *.**.

The claimants claim includes 60.00 costs as set out in the terms and conditions.


The claimant believes that the facts stated in tis claim form are true and I am duly authorised by the claimant to sign this statement


Signed BW Legal Services Limited
(Claimants Legal Representative)

KeithP

Sayn wrote: »

...the MCOL website was asking for a defence request password as well as the claim no. from the claim form but there is no defence password on there so not sure how to log in to check whats going on with it.

This is slightly concerning.

Was the Claim Form issued by the County Court Business Centre in Northampton?

Have you a box like this about halfway down the right hand side of the Claim Form?...



The password you need is there.

Sayn

OMG thank you Keith P, you're a star. I have just seen it. I must've read that bit when I first got the claim letter but now I was looking at the top of the form and on the bottom and just couldn't see where it was so thanks for that.


Also another thing I didn't initially do was to complain to the store managers of the retail park where the PCN was issued so I am now writing a letter of complaint to the few shops in that car park hoping that the managers or head office can somehow cancel this fine. I know the claim has already been submitted by BW Legal but if the store managers reply back saying they will get the fine cancelled will this mean that the claim could be dropped by BW Legal? I'm hoping writing to the few stores that are there i.e Farm Foods that they will be able to help with cancelling this by speaking to NCP.

Sayn

Just checked the MCOL website and they have received my AOS.

Also sent letters to 2 of the shops in that retail park so hopefully will receive some helpful reply back from them.