BW Legal Court Claim

KeithP

Sayn, you last sentence seems to be implying that if the driver is known then the case is lost.

It simply does not follow that a driver Defendant will lose.


If you are going to download the form, can I suggest that you fill it in online before printing it? It will be easier and neater.

Sayn

Thanks for the advice KeithP about filling the form online.


With the post above mentioning the driver being known not meaning the driver will lose the case I was just trying to determine what can be said in the case if the defendant goes in claiming he doesn't know who was driving but if the judge asked the defendant directly if they were the driver would the defendant simply say they could have been but can't be sure or say yes if the defendant definitely knew they were the driver on the day?




I have just logged on to mcol and there is an update on there which says DQ sent to you (dated yesterday) and DQ filed by claimant (also dated for yesterday) so maybe I will receive the DQ through the post tomorrow which has been sent by the court. Is there a time limit on when to send this back by if received tomorrow??


Another question if anyone can help which I was meaning to ask initially. If I decided to pay now, how much would I need to pay? would I still have to pay the court costs and legal representative costs or just the initial cost of £160 odd? as there hasn't been a hearing yet would the court fees/legal representative fee get cancelled?
I noticed there is an admissions bit on the mcol website- would paying through that cancel the court/legal representative fee?

KeithP

The Claimant has already paid a £25 filing fee so you'll need to pay that too.

Coupon-mad

Oh please don't try to pay (probably over £200 is what they will want) for a case where, even if you lost, you'd pay less...

No-one does that. And almost no-one here loses.

The PCN sum is not even £160 but it is if you cave in and start trying to settle a scam, for no reason, now!

nosferatu1001

The amount you have to pay is whatever amount you agree with the claimant
This is still a negotation phase, there is no judgement enforcing an amount yet - either way, after all you can definitely still win this and get your costs

You can ask the judge how you are supposed ot help the claimant prove their case, when you beliueve it is the claimants burden to do so? And that if Parliament had wanted they could have forced, ala S172 of the RTA 1998, Keepers to identify Drivers. They chose not to do that. That the claimant has chosen not to use POFA to make you, the Keeper defendant, liable is THEIR choice and THEIR burden to bear.

Sayn

Coupon mad. Thanks for the advice but yes at this stage I will carry on with my defence and see what happens but all this is just taking so much time and effort to research, read and put a defence together and I am still not 100% sure how I will defend this if it gets to court. It's just the time and stress of it all is starting to get to me as I am always thinking about it and am the type of person who cannot be at peace until I sort out what is bothering me so this dragging out for so long has really got to me.

Sayn

Thanks nosferatu1001. That does make it more clear on what to say if a judge asks outright about the driver. I just got to make sure I remember all that and not annoy the judge by saying it. :-D


So I haven't been on the forum for a little while but in that time I have emailed my DQ to the court over a week ago but I haven't heard anything back on whether they have received it. I have checked the MCOL website but there are no updates on there since the last one which says DQ sent out to me.
Do I just wait now until further instructions or shall I contact the court to ask if they have received my DQ as when I sent it through email I did get the auto response from them saying they had received my email so should I assume they must have received it and are busy so haven't updated their website yet?

Sayn

Hello everyone


So since my last post MCOL have updated their site to say they have received my DQ.
A few days ago I received a pack from BW legal which includes a letter with numbered points on what they have concluded. I'm not sure if this is their defence letter maybe but points included are:


1) They say their clients claim is for damages as a result of your breach of clients terms and conditions
2) It says on the contravention date that they were instructed that I was the registered keeper and/ or the driver of the vehicle with reg mark ....... which was arked on private land managed by their client (Car Park).


3) a paragraph about the signage in the carpark and how they are prominent and an objective observer would consider the action to be done in acceptance of the T&C's


4) The evidence enclosed held in our clients favour supports the logical conclusion that you simply failed to display a valid ticket on the said date etc..
5) about the defendant failing to exploit the opportunity to pay reduced amount so they have the right to pursue for full amount of the PCN etc..
6) About the £100 charge being the charge for contravening the t&cs
7) it is irrelevant whether or not the charge as displayed bears any relation to the cost of parking etc...
8) about the £60 extra charge being entirely reasonable for nature of work involved etc..


They have also attached pictures as before of the car entering and exiting the car park but this just shows the front end of the car and the back end and not of the whole area.


They have then sent pictures of the signage at one of the entry points of the car park but these pictures are not of the entry and exit points which the Car is being driven in and out of and of which they have caught the car on the ANPR camera. These are pictures of an alternative entry and exit point and they have not included any pictures of the entry and exit point showing signage from where the car was driven through.


They have also further included some pictures of the signage displaying the costs and other information but the writing on these printout is not readable due to poor printing and so don't show where the £100 or extra added costs information is included.


Also I went to this car park myself recently and drove through the entry point from which the original picures of the car have been caught on ANPR and although there are signs as you drive through it you would have to stop your car to be able to read them fully and some of the writing is a bit small.


Also as I drove straight into the car park there was a parking space right at the back and there was only one sign place high above on the left hand side which was covered in a lot of tree branches all over it which covered some of the sign up but you could still see it as it is bright yellow..But as the original contravention date was back in march/april time it could have been that these branches were covered in leaves and could have completely hidden this sign.
I am not 100% sure of this but it could be possible that a driver could enter the car park and not read the signs upon entry point and park in this space where there was only the one sign which was hidden by the branches and leaves as it was covered and missed by the driver.
Could anything like this be mentioned in court and would it be something that could win this case if the claimant wasn't able to say that this scenario wasn't 100% impossible?
Please let me know what you guys think about all the above mentioned.


Also at the back of this pack is a letter saying without prejudice save as to costs and offering to reduce the sum to £165 if paid within about 14 days.


The offer starts with "Strictly without prejudice". What does this mean and why do they use this phrase?


Look forward to your thoughts and thanks again.

danslerouge

Hi Sayn, I'm basically in the same boat as you, ANPR, NCP, only stayed 20mins, BW Legal, and I'm at the claim letter stage, nicely timed at christmas eve. The only slight difference is that this was my first time in the car park and I hadn't realised it had changed from a council run pay and display. Obviously I'd be very interested to know how you get on.

Sayn

Hello again


I'm not sure if anyone is still watching this thread as don't seem to get much replies but an update on what's happening with my case.


I didn't reply to the letter from the claimant offering a reduced fine to pay so I have now received a letter from the court giving me a hearing date in march. Not sure what I will do to prepare myself for this at the moment so any help would be appreciated.



I know I need to prepare a witness statement, not exactly sure what to include in it.



What else do I need to get together? There is something about sending copies of things to the claimant in the court letter so does this mean whatever I prepare to take to court I will first need to make copies of it and send it to the claimant as well as to the court??


am i right in thinking I need to send everything out to court and claimant 2 weeks before the hearing?