Served with Court claim by VCS

Coupon-mad

You sent your Witness Statement to the CCBC?

Oh no! Your local court Judge WILL NOT HAVE IT.

You are going to have take it in person this week, hand deliver another copy of your WS, your evidence, and your skeleton argument and your COSTS SCHEDULE.

mooney89

Well that's immensely frustrating, as nothing on the documents from court made it clear to which address these documents needed to be posted.


Please can you tell me if I even have a leg to stand on, and whether or not the court is likely to accept any of my arguments, in the event they haven't received the Witness Statement and Evidence bundle?


Can I hand deliver the WS at this late stage and explain the mistake to the judge? I'll hand deliver the Skeleton Argument tomorrow.

Coupon-mad

as nothing on the documents from court made it clear to which address these documents needed to be posted.

Top right of the letter from your local court told you the Directions came from a named Judge at your local Court.

The CCBC is simply a conduit, a business centre for the MCOL start process, and they told you in a Notice of ALLOCATION that the case had been 'allocated' to your local Court ages ago. The CCBC has nothing to do with the hearing!

Please can you tell me if I even have a leg to stand on, and whether or not the court is likely to accept any of my arguments, in the event they haven't received the Witness Statement and Evidence bundle?

Yes you do. Nothing has changed about your case. Be confident!

They have no choice, you hand in the ring binder with it all in and with the HEARING DATE AND CLAIM NUMBER AND YOUR NAME AS DEFENDANT written on the front on a sticker or in marker pen...

They have to take it or show you the box to put it in.

All of it: your WS, evidence - all numbered - and all pages numbered, a skelly, a costs schedule an a contents page referring to the page numbers.

Make it nice and easy for the Judge to follow! A nice ring binder of it all.

Can I hand deliver the WS at this late stage and explain the mistake to the judge?

Who told you to draw attention to it being late or explain excuses?
That is not what was said!

Just file it at the local court tomorrow once it's all organised nicely.

And make sure you have emailed everything to the Claimant's solicitors as well (costs schedule and skelly need emailing presumably if you already did the WS and evidence in April to them?).

mooney89

Thanks so much - I've taken and followed all that advice!


The hearing is on Tuesday, all my paperwork is done, and I just have a few questions about procedure that I hoped you could help with. I've also included a summary of my Skeleton argument, and can post the whole thing if it would help.


1. There's the odd example of case law (nothing central) and a few pieces of legislation that I've refered to in my SA, but haven't included in my evidence bundle, as they were sent off before I wrote the SA and developed some of my arguments. Can I rely on them at all? How do I ask the DJ whether they will accept them and is there any point trying? I've printed 2 extra copies of anything that wasn't included in my WS, just in case.


2. There's also 1 document in my evidence (POPLA report) where I've accidentally included the wrong report (lead ajudicator's comments, instead of the 2015 annual report) - again, I've prepared 3 copies of the actual report I've referenced, in case the DJ accepts this. Any advice on that?


3. How do I actually argue my case? Can I simply read from my SA? it's 11 pages so I'm conscious of not wanting to bang on and damage my own case.


4. Is there any opportunity for challenging or responding to the claimant's arguments , or asking the Judge for clarification or in any way politely interuppting, or do I just need to listen carefully an wait my turn?


SA, in a nutshell:


On your advice, I've chosen not to contest the issue about using the wrong DVLA -issued address - I got in touch witrh the DVLA and they confirmed that VCS sent it to the address DVLA had for me at that time, so I've no leg to stand on. However their letter did prove VCS has not been accurate/told the truth about the date they applied for my details - it was 3 days earlier than the 8 days after the incident they claimed it was.


Right of auidence - I've politely asked the Judge to consider whether the claimant's representative has any right to be there.
The Identity of the Driver - they've explicitly claimed its me in their WS, and have no evidence to support that claim
The Presumption of the Driver - evidence to demonstrate this presumption isn't acceptable


The Burden of Proof - as you might imagine
No Locus Standi - I can demonstrate that by failing to meet the standards of IPC or BPA's own code of conduct, the claimant has breached its own contract with the landowner
Inadequate signage which fails to establish any contract - diff. from ParkingEye v. .beavis, using evidence previously laid out for No locus standi, plus spurling V Bradshaw, and the two ATA codes of practice .
The failure to establish any Keeper liability in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act [2012) - Demonstrating that they haven't followed the regs set out in POFA regardless of whether the ticket was a NTD or PCN - I've tried to explain how they fail via either avenue
Attempt at Double recovery - no explanation for the extra 60 quid
The Charge is a Penalty - using parkingeye V beavis
The Claimant’s vexatious conduct - CPR and PD used to demonstrate that they've had no chance of success and they've wasted everyone's time by failing to follow a central peice of legislation

KeithP

Have you seen this short video?...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU

Coupon-mad

The NEWBIES thread includes links to people's experiences at the hearing, so read those links. Also, here is a new one from this week with tips from the Defendant:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75773476#Comment_75773476

And a recent post this week from bargepole telling people how it all works:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75771621#Comment_75771621

HTH

mooney89

A mr mcfarlane for VCS has just turned up. He openly admitted he wasnt connected to VCS in any way nor is he employed by them. Any thoughts from anyone who happens to be online?

mooney89

What's this?

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A mr mcfarlane for VCS has just turned up. He openly admitted he wasnt connected to VCS in any way nor is he employed by them. Any thoughts from anyone who happens to be online?

Redx

I suppose you could challenge his ROA (Right Of Audience)
(same as if it was a Mr Wilkes)

mooney89

I lost the case, which I'm pretty gutted about given the huge amount of time I put into it. Summary as follows.


Mr. MacFarlane rep. VCS introduced himself before the hearing and made it clear he wasn't employed by VCS. I thought this would firm up my grounds for challenging his ROA, which was top of the list in my SA, but the judge didn't mention it or give me the opportunity to bring it up before she handed over to him.


He hadn't received my SA (I had sent it to VCS) but nevertheless laid out their claim using their paralegal's WS. DJ asked few questions and he spoke as I took notes, sweeping over important details and making the case out to be black and white (perhaps it was).


My turn: DJ had already confirmed she had read every page of our WS and SA and evidence (my submission was massive, a full ring binder) and said I could talk for as long as I liked but it would be sensible not to read word for word. This threw me as I wasn't prepared to ad. lib.


I began with the issue of presumption of driver, but the DJ just cleared that up by telling me to ask the Claimant how they were pursuing me - they replied, 'as the keeper' , and nothing more was said.


I began my arguments and the DJ skipped straight to the issue of signage and in no uncertain terms told me that the signage had established a contract as far as she was concerned, so I took the hint and didn't push any further on that, leaving me with pretty much the failure to adhere to POFA as my main leg to stand on.


I went through POFA breaches in detail, fluffing my lines and alternating between my SA and speaking freely - I was nervous and intimidated by the whole affair. DJ listened for a while and then interrupted to say that the 2 avenues by which a claimant can pursue Keeper liability are an 'and/or' situation - and that they were pursuing my using para. 9, which the DJ assumed they hadn't breached, despite my SA claiming to the contrary.


The DJ invited the claimant's rep to question me, which I wasn't expecting at all, and he asked a few things where my answers clearly damaged my case. For example he asked whether I was a regular visitor to that car park, to which I answered I've been there occasionally in the past, and I could tell I had messed up. I clammed up on questions after that but it was clear he had done a number on me.
The DJ summed up: She was satisfied that the signage adequately established a contract, that the Claimant had followed para.9. of POFA , despite my claims about their insufficient NTD and NTK, which she didn't even seem to consider, and then quoted a selection of case law to demonstrate that she was satisfied of the claimant's claim.
She ordered I pay the £160 charge, + £50 court fee, + £9.16 interest. The claimant's rep tried to claim costs for my unreasonable behaviour, and the DJ seemed very close to awarding them, explaining that if I was prepared to claim costs against them, I should hardly be surprised if they did the same. I think in the end the only reason she didn't is because she took pity on me.She said that I had been ill-advised to take this case any further than an internal appeals process, but that my behaviour wasn't quite unreasonable.


Thanks to all those who gave constructive criticism and advice in the last few months. I appreciate it, despite having left the court feeling embittered that I had given up so much time for what seemed like a cause that the DJ believed was daft to take on in the first place.


One final question: I've paid the court-specified amount to VCS - I've emailed VCS with a confirmation of this payment and asked them to confirm it too. I just don't want any more hassle. How can I protect myself in the event that they claim I've not paid? I can just imagine them dragging it out and causing me even more hassle and worry.