Served with Court claim by VCS

mooney89

The main areas of POFA I seem to have them on are the requirements about the initial notice to driver - i.e. the actual card they stuck under the windscreen of my car - and the notice to keeper / parking charge notice they issued 7 days after the incident. i.e. paras 7, 8 and 9. Does this sound watertight?

mooney89

Coupon-mad wrote: »

It's been done loads of times in VCS threads - you do not have to work this out from scratch!

You already know the PCN wasn't a PCN, according to VCS, yet clearly it was! therefore they got your data prematurely then used the wrong 28 day period.

Please do not post that you can't see the difference between their words and 9(2)f of Schedule 4!

As well as there being no adequate notice of the parking charge on signs, and no relevant obligation or relevant contract...

Although this person reported that they lost their case (bad Judge, probs - just bad luck on the day, most likely), here is a case where at WS stage the OP pulled apart the VCS template WS drivel:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75581072#Comment_75581072

...and you need to understand Rights of Audience which is also explained there, ready for if Mr Wilkes or another self employed 'legal rep' rocks up on the day.

In addition I've looked into rights of audience. The person who signed the Witness statement claims to be 'employed by VCS as a paralegal'. Is paralegal a separate legal entity to a solicitor or barrister, and do they have the same rights of audience as the latter?


Also, if this paralegal turns out not to be the person who turns up on the day to represent the claimant, is that grounds to argue whoever turns up does not have a right of audience?

Coupon-mad

The person who signed the Witness statement claims to be 'employed by VCS as a paralegal'.

But that person won't show up to a hearing, almost certainly not. A self employed legal rep will, like Mr Wilkes (search the forum for his surname and read).

You are not expected to spot the 28 day period error yourself, you simply need to search VCS keeper liability 28 days to save our poor typing fingers and find the answer that's here a dozen times over already.

A NTK is not just about the date they sent it.

Why not also read the threads by Lop5 and the one by adambuzz14?

Both have a WS from VCS, a template, and between us we pulled it apart. Again, saves us typing and you panicking, if you learn from all the other recent VCS threads.

mooney89

Coupon-mad wrote: »

But that person won't show up to a hearing, almost certainly not. A self employed legal rep will, like Mr Wilkes (search the forum for his surname and read).

You are not expected to spot the 28 day period error yourself, you simply need to search VCS keeper liability 28 days to save our poor typing fingers and find the answer that's here a dozen times over already.

A NTK is not just about the date they sent it.

Why not also read the threads by Lop5 and the one by adambuzz14?

Both have a WS from VCS, a template, and between us we pulled it apart. Again, saves us typing and you panicking, if you learn from all the other recent VCS threads.

Thanks for your reply Coupon_mad. I appreciate you can't spend you life repeating the same explanations individually! However I've combed through POFA time and time again , and I've previously seen the hits from the search for '28 days keeper liability you suggested'. Both 8.2f and 9.2f state that the NTK must warn the keeper that if after 28 days I haven't paid up and they don't know the driver and current driver address, they've got the right to pursue keeper liability. The 1st letter I have from VCS states at the bottom that 'Please be warned: that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after the Issue Date of this notice, the amount of the unpaid parking charge specified in this notice has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, we will have the right to recover from you, the Keeper, any unpaid balance of the Parking Charge. This Notice will be deemed to have been received by you on the second working day after the issue Date stated above unless the contrary is proved.'


So my question is, surely I don't have a leg to stand on with this particular claim about POFA? I'm not trying to argue myself into losing the case, but I don't want to attempt to rely on this criticism unless someone can explain what I'm missing here - I've read and reread other threads and can't make sense of how this argument can be relied on in my case.

mooney89

There's been an interesting update: yesterday a signed for document was posted to my house, but as I was at work it was bounced to the local sorting office. It's dated as being sent on the 24th April (my hearing is the 7th May). I picked it up from the sorting office this morning, the 26th.


It includes an updated WS, claiming the Claimant made an error in the 1st witness statement, and adding some screen shots from DVLA to prove that they did in fact send the 1st postal NTK on the 15th to the correct address at that time, having requested the information from the DVLA that same day.


Surely their including the fact they accesses the DVLA info just 8 days after the parking incident proves that they haven't followed POFA paragraphs 7 and 8?


So do I ask that this WS be disregarded as it was technically 'given' yesterday (the 25th), i.e. 13 days - not 14 - before the hearing?


Or do I not contest this and then use it as evidence of another way in which they haven't followed POFA regs?

Coupon-mad

However I've combed through POFA

So did this poster and they spotted the difference in the 28 day period stated wrongly:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75748515#Comment_75748515

mooney89

Please could someone let me know whether a Skeleton argument needs to be sent to both the Claimant and the Court before the hearing? My hearing is on Tuesday 7th, and as it's a bank holiday weekend, when would be the latest I could send the SA?


Also, the Claimant has sent me an amended WS, delivery of which was attempted (hence, 'given') on the 25th, which on my count is 13 days before the hearing. This WS contains clear evidence that the Claimant accessed my DVLA records 8 days after the parking incident. This means that , as the claimant is arguing that the original ticket (NTD) is not a parking charge notice, they have not followed paragraph 8.4 of POFA.


So, do I challenge the Claimant's right to introduce this evidence given that it was sent late, or do I not mention it and then attempt to use it against them?

Umkomaas

Anything you send to the court you send to the claimant too. SA plus cost schedule should be sent at least 24 hours ahead of the hearing. Perhaps send them a couple of days before.

If you’re emailing, then the BH isn’t as big an issue as if you were snail-mailing.

Also, the Claimant has sent me an amended WS, delivery of which was attempted (hence, 'given') on the 25th, which on my count is 13 days before the hearing.

If it materially changes their case and your Defence is dramatically compromised, email the court telling them this and ask that the Judge orders a ‘stay’ to give you the opportunity to provide a revised defence based on the newly submitted particulars.

This WS contains clear evidence that the Claimant accessed my DVLA records 8 days after the parking incident. This means that , as the claimant is arguing that the original ticket (NTD) is not a parking charge notice, they have not followed paragraph 8.4 of POFA.

They are working on this on the same lines as an ANPR issued charge, and the DVLA are happy to turn a blind eye (tacit approval) to this.

They are working on the basis of para 9, not para 8 of PoFA.

mooney89

Thanks for your reply - could you tell me whether I should post it directly to my local court where the hearing will be held, or whether it should go to the county court business centre as my WS did? I'm concerned the DJ won't have any opportunity to read it in advance even if I get it finished this evening and sent off tomorrow, as my hearing is on Tuesday after the bank holiday.


Thanks!

KeithP

You sent your Witness Statement to the CCBC? That was a mistake.

Once a case gets transferred to your local court, that is the end of the CCBC's involvement.

Everything from that point on should be dealt with by the hearing court.

Can you not hand deliver it to the court?