EBICO Zero Variable Tariff To Be Withdrawn

Chino

Anthorn wrote: »

But confusion immediately sets in at least for me: If the new tariff becomes the new default tariff to which customers are automatically switched to when their existing tariff ends then surely that new tariff will be subject to the price cap!

What's confusing about the Ebico Standard tariff being subject to a price cap?

Anthorn

Chino wrote: »

What's confusing about the Ebico Standard tariff being subject to a price cap?

I think you need to read my post again.

Anthorn

EachPenny wrote: »

This is what really gets my goat.

The Government are spending billions of our money trying to make people more energy efficient and to cut consumption, yet a series of Government/Ofgem decisions have progressively hit low energy consumers the hardest.

Rather than 'protecting' me with a 'simple' tariff and a price-cap, bullying me into having a smart meter, and offering to give me free insulation (not needed) I would much rather they'd left things alone and allowed an energy company to reward me for cutting my consumption by charging me proportionally less for what I do use.

'Nanny state' has gone mad.

Not true.

Let's look at the way the energy market works at least in theory: It largely works on competition with the cheapest tariff attracting the most customers. The Ofgem ruling on variable default tariffs protects vulnerable customers on those tariffs from being excessively charged. So if as a result of that cap the default variable tariff becomes the cheapest then everyone will switch to that tariff and competing tariffs will be reduced to attract or recover customers. So overall the price of energy is reduced.

I say in theory because it doesn't always work in practise: Some people are not aware of cheaper tariffs, some others can't be bothered to switch because they think the process is too complicated or some energy companies such as Ebico propound their largely fictitious ethos and depend on customer loyalty.

Getting back to the topic what Ebico has done is to circumvent Ofgem's intended protection of vulnerable customers by removing the tariff which is subject to the price cap and introducing a new tariff which increases their prices.

Lastly, even a cursory look at Ebico's history shows that their largely fictitious ethos works and they retain customers who can probably get cheaper energy elsewhere. We know from this latest episode that contrary to Ebico's claim to help vulnerable customers fight fuel poverty they actually do the opposite and increase prices for those vulnerable customers thereby making fuel poverty worse!

joncombe

I've also had a letter from them (see below) and I'm pretty annoyed about it. According to their own projections after the standing charge is introduced, if I remain on the tariff, it will increase my predicted annual costs by over 50% from £303 to £456.

At present I'm paying

Gas: 5.22p per KWH and 0 standing charge.
Electric: Day 22.56p and Night 7.75p both with 0p standing charge.

This will change to be the exact same unit prices, but a 26.04p per day standing charge on electric and 16.06p per day on gas.

With my current usage, gas is £159.94 a year and electric £143.06.

The standing charge will add £95.05 for Electric and £58.62 for gas over and above this.

Yes I take the point another poster made that people should budget for their bills go up, but is it reasonable to expect they will increase 50%?




However under the "Choosing the right tariff" box there is further confusion.

Under the heading "Out cheapest similar tariff" it suggests if I switch to "Ebico Zero Paying by Direct Debit" I can expect savings of £12.85 for Electricty and £14.27 for Gas.

However when I telephoned about this I was told that this is the same tariff I'm on now with the same charges, except with an annual discount for paying by direct debit and it too will end on 28th November. So why suggest I switch to it if will also end on the same date?

However it also mentions under the heading "Out cheapest overall tariff" is Ebico Zero Green Fixed V2 paying by direct debit.

On this I'm told I can expect savings of £68.14 for electricity and £35.58 per year for gas.

However this tariff has the costs

Electric 26.792115p per kw/h for day and 9.202935p kw/h for night rate (with a 0p standing charge) and 5.969775p kw/h for gas.

However these unit rates are around 15% above what I'm paying now and with no standing charge. So how can it possibly save me money compared with the tariff I'm on now?

When I telephoned Ebico I was told that the "savings" quoted for the "Cheapest Similar Tariff" are based on my current tariff (Ebico Zero), which is ending. However the savings quoted under "Our Cheapest Overall Tariff" are based on savings compared to the new "Ebico Standard" I would be switched to if I don't do anything.

Is this legal? It is certainly misleading to suggest savings on both tariffs when one is based on my current prices and the other based on future prices that have yet to take effect.

It seems to me the letter is designed to mislead that if I switched to either of these tariffs, I will be saving money when in reality if I switch the best I can hope for is a 15% increase and if I don't do anything, I can expect a 50% increase.

Furthermore if I log onto the website it shows this.



So it says I'm actually on Ebico Standard which has a 0p standing charge and no end date. Again, more misleading information. I'm actually on Ebico Zero (which apparently does have an end date) and Ebico Standard only starts on 29th November. So more misleading.

Again when I mentioned this on the telephone I was told this is all correct because Ebico Zero is not ending, it is just been renamed "Ebico Standard" and a standing charge introduced. Surely if the tariff changes name, it's not the same tariff and again they are misleading to suggest that it is?

I have raised a complaint with Ebico because this whole letter and their website seems designed to mislead you into thinking you will save money with Ebico when in fact all the suggested tariffs are either more costly or ending, so not actually available to switch to.

I was not impressed with Ebico with the whole SSE/RHE switching where I got letters from both Ebico and SSE contracting each other, and now this misleading of prices. I'm switching to "Solarplicity Fair Market Price" which also has no standing charge. The prices are similar to the new Ebico Zero Green Fixed V2 (cheaper on day electric, more costly on night and slightly more costly on gas). This is the final straw for me with Ebico and I'm glad to see they are not now the only provider offering zero standing charge.

I don't really understand what this has to do with a Government price cap and why that requires a standing charge. It feels to me that Ebico are pushing out a huge price increase before the price cap comes in (knowing their prices rices will be limited after that) and not being very up-front about it.

EachPenny

joncombe wrote: »

I don't really understand what this has to do with a Government price cap and why that requires a standing charge. It feels to me that Ebico are pushing out a huge price increase before the price cap comes in (knowing their prices rices will be limited after that) and not being very up-front about it.

You've misunderstood. If you read through the whole thread it will become clearer.

The price cap doesn't prevent energy companies offering customers special deals. We are all being offered a special deal with zero standing charges if we wish to transfer onto that tariff. The very substantial price increase you are looking at only applies if you stay on the Standard tariff - and that is due to the impact of the price cap.

The special deal we are being offered also comes with a price increase, but more in line with the increases many customers with other companies have already experienced.

silverwhistle

I think what should also be pointed out is that the new fixed tariff with no standing charge is still cheaper than the alternatives for low users.

I'm not an vulnerable user and am quite able to use a calculator and spreadsheet, and as indicated in a post above have already calculated the potential increase with and without standing charge. Even the latter is wincingly substantial but still cheaper.

Everybody has to do their own calculations (or ask somebody else to do it). The ,market is changing and there is a lot of obfuscatory c**p wherever you look, including with Ebico.


If I can persuade my GF to move in all bets would be off and I'd have to review my usage! In the meantime I just hope the solar panels are productive and I'll keep the wood burner on a bit longer.

Patr100

I note Joncombe's letter from Ebico is dated Oct 18th.
It's now Nov 1st and I still haven't received by post, email or on my account official notification of the changes to the Ebico Zero tariff.
(I am switching to the Green V2 tariff but that was only because I noticed the imposition of a standing charge to come on my last bill.

joncombe

EachPenny wrote: »

You've misunderstood. If you read through the whole thread it will become clearer.

The price cap doesn't prevent energy companies offering customers special deals. We are all being offered a special deal with zero standing charges if we wish to transfer onto that tariff. The very substantial price increase you are looking at only applies if you stay on the Standard tariff - and that is due to the impact of the price cap.

I have read through the whole thread and it isn't clearer.

I don't understand why a Government price cap now means the tariff has to have a standing charge when it didn't previously.

Anyway I've now had one letter dated 18th October 2018 which I put in my previous post. Now I have a new one, dated 22nd October 2018 which seems to say mostly the same thing. Again it hints that Government legislation makes the tariff unsustainable, but they haven't told me what is planned and why the planned changes make it so.

Indeed you might expect the idea of a price cap is to stop exactly what's happening - hitting customers with an excessive price rise (in my case, 50%). I did ask Ebico and they told me the numbers they had been given from Ofgem make it unsustainable. I asked what numbers and I was told they hadn't been given any numbers, but they "could not afford" the current prices any longer.




However I think this letter is simply further evidence Ebico is trying to confuse customers.

My previous later gave me an estimated prediction that if I was to remain on Ebico Zero (becoming Ebico standard), based on my usage my annual costs would change from £303 to £456.

This new letter however shows that if I was to move to "Ebico Standard" the "Personal projection for the year" is £300.51, which is actually cheaper. But how can it be? The unit prices are the same as Ebico Zero but now there is a standing charge when there was not previously. Tellingly there are no figures on the letter to indicate how they arrived at this figure.

They are now telling me that the "Ebico Zero Green Fixed V2" would be £381.74, but again no indication as to how they arrived at these figures (the previous letter showed my annual gas/electric consumption on which they had based the calculation).

Furthermore, the previous letter (dated 18th October) showed that for Ebico Standard from 29th November I would pay

Electric Day 22.56p per kwh, night 7.75p per kw/h with a 26.04p per day standing charge.
Gas 5.22p per kw/h with a 16.06p per day standing charge.

However on the letter dated 22nd October for the same tariff they now quote me

Electric Day 22.561035p p/kwh and night 7.74648 p/kwh and a standing charge of 24.8p per day.
Gas is 5.21535p per kw/h and a standing charge of 15.3 per day.

So the unit prices are broadly the same except they now show them to 6 decimal places(!) when previously it was 2, but the standing charges shown are slightly cheaper.

However if I go to the Ebico website I see that the prices for "Ebico Standard" from 29th November have the same unit prices as the letter dated 22nd October, but show the standing charges from the letter dated 18th October. Whilst my personal projection for that is now £469.22, whilst the prices for "Ebico Zero V2 Green Fixed V2" match the letter I was sent on the 22nd October, as does the personal projection for this tariff.

So that means for the "Ebico Standard (from 29th November)" I've got 3 different sets of unit prices/standing charges and 3 different personal projections, in the space of 4 days and been given two different tariffs as the one that is cheapest for me.

Slow hand clap.

As I say, it seems to me Ebico are deliberately trying to make it as difficult as possible to understand the impact of these changes and what is the cheapest tariff and in my opinion it is intended to mislead people in sticking with them with project costs and savings that don't seem to add up, given the prices quotes.

EachPenny

joncombe wrote: »

I have read through the whole thread and it isn't clearer.

I don't understand why a Government price cap now means the tariff has to have a standing charge when it didn't previously.....

So you are saying you don't understand the impact of the price cap, but then go on to detail what amounts to a conspiracy theory about Ebico trying to confuse customers....

joncombe wrote: »

However I think this letter is simply further evidence Ebico is trying to confuse customers.
....
As I say, it seems to me Ebico are deliberately trying to make it as difficult as possible to understand the impact of these changes and what is the cheapest tariff and in my opinion it is intended to mislead people in sticking with them with project costs and savings that don't seem to add up, given the prices quotes.

Can I ask, have you read Ebico's response to the Ofgem consultation?

joncombe wrote: »

Indeed you might expect the idea of a price cap is to stop exactly what's happening - hitting customers with an excessive price rise (in my case, 50%).

You might indeed expect that. But only if you have sufficient faith and trust in the Government and regulators to implement a policy which sounds great in theory, but has endless potential to backfire.

Many of us switched to Ebico when the then combination of Government and Ofgem conspired to "make bills easier to understand" with the result that energy companies 'reintroduced' standing charges which at that time had all but disappeared.

Then came the price cap for prepayment customers, which again distorted things and disadvantaged low usage customers.

You'd think the Government and Ofgem would learn from their mistakes. But then they would first need to understand and accept they had made mistakes, rather than trumpeting how much average users will be saving.

joncombe

EachPenny wrote: »

So you are saying you don't understand the impact of the price cap, but then go on to detail what amounts to a conspiracy theory about Ebico trying to confuse customers....

If I don't understand the price cap, can you explain to me why the price cap means there is no a standing charge when there wasn't previously. What change in the law requires it. I haven't seen anything or any post that clearly sets that out. If you have, perhaps you could point me to it?

As to conspiracy theory - what is your explanation of being given two different estimates for the same tariff and being told either will save me money, when clearly they won't?

Can I ask, have you read Ebico's response to the Ofgem consultation?

No I just see a news item with largely the same information in it as the letter I was sent (https://ebico.org.uk/ebico-news/)

You might indeed expect that. But only if you have sufficient faith and trust in the Government and regulators to implement a policy which sounds great in theory, but has endless potential to backfire.

Many of us switched to Ebico when the then combination of Government and Ofgem conspired to "make bills easier to understand" with the result that energy companies 'reintroduced' standing charges which at that time had all but disappeared.

Yes I am very much familiar with the "Tariff Simplification" that led to most suppliers abandoning zero standing charge tariffs. Replacing two numbers (two unit rates) with two different numbers (a unit rate and a standing charge) did not in my opinion make anything simpler, but certainly made things much more expensive for low users.

Then came the price cap for prepayment customers, which again distorted things and disadvantaged low usage customers.

You'd think the Government and Ofgem would learn from their mistakes. But then they would first need to understand and accept they had made mistakes, rather than trumpeting how much average users will be saving.

Well now there I agree with you!