Fine for Paid Parking Ticket - HX Car Park

KeithP

reysham wrote: »

Also,somebody (I apologise for my lack of memory of the poster) mentioned that BPA CoP cannot be used due to the car park not being a member: According to the signage within the car park, the BPA icon is clearly visible in the bottom right-hand corner; does this not show their affiliation with the BPA?

Yes, it does.

Is the IPC's logo on those signs too?

'twas I that said:

HX Car Park Management Limited are members of the IPC's Accredited Operator Scheme so what ever it says in the BPA's CoP is irrelevant.

Paras 10 and 11 need suitable adjustment.

Look up the BPA AOS membership, google those words, and you will find HX Car Park Management Limited are not there.

They are not members of the BPA's Approved Operator Scheme. Therefore they are not bound by terms of that scheme.

They are however, members of the International Parking Community's Accredited Operator Scheme and are therefore bound by the CoP of that organisation.

reysham

Thank you @KiethP. Yes, it has the logo of both.

Will this amendment do:

10. I have considered the Code of Practice ("CoP") of the British Parking Association ("BPA"), of which the Claimant is, according to the signage, a member. A copy of paragraph 13 of the CoP, which relates to grace periods, is at page 7 of Appendix. In order to be an accredited member of the BPA, compliance with the CoP is compulsory, and a copy of paragraphs 4.1 and 6 of the CoP is at Pages 8 and 9 of Appendix respectively. Paragraph 13 of the CoP clearly states that a grace period is to be applied to parking. The CoP makes clear that such grace periods are to be applied both at the start of any parking period and also at the end of any parking period. The whole point of these grace periods is to allow drivers time to find a parking space, to read the signage, and to exit the car park once they have finished parking. Grace periods are not defined, but the CoP requires them to be "a minimum of 10 minutes" either side of the actual parking (paragraphs 13.2 and 13.4)

11. I have also considered the CoP of the International Parking Community (IPC), another association to which the Claimant’s signage implies membership. This too refers to compliance and grace periods, at paragraphs 2 and 15, respectively, copies of which are at pages 10 and 11 of Appendix. Paragraph 15 of the IPC’s CoP clearly states that drivers are to given a ‘minimum of 10 minutes to leave a site after pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired’, and further states that it is absolutely applicable to parking that exceeds one hour.

12. In this case, the data produced and relied upon by the Claimant shows that the period passing between the car entering and leaving was 12 minutes. Applying the "minimum" 10 minutes either side of the parking per BPA’s CoP, the minimum total grace period allowed by the Claimant under its own compulsory CoP was 20 minutes, and at least 10 minutes were owed after the paid parking period according to the IPC CoP. The driver’s efforts in purchasing a ticket for two hours of parking, and returning to the car in time to leave within 12 minutes of the end time highlights the effort made in leaving with a toddler within a reasonable amount of time.

KeithP

I don't believe your para 10 has any relevance.

The only significant thing is that HX are members of the IPC's AOS and are bound by the terms of that scheme.

Neither the BPA nor their Cop should be mentioned at all - simply because HX is not bound by them.

And again, you need to adjust para 12 to remove any reference to the BPA and their CoP.

reysham

Thanks again,
I've amended that

Coupon-mad

HX are not in the BPA AOS do I agree, stop quoting the BPA CoP.

Driver Location History (should I include this, even if the driver is unnamed, as I have referred to it in the DS?)

Yes, you are perfectly entitled to KNOW who was driving and have obtained evidence from that person and talked about the issues, yet not name them.

You are under no obligation to name them and cannot be presumed (wrongly) to have been the driver, and nor do you have to file & serve a WS from that driver.

So file Henry Greenslade's words from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 about UNDERSTANDING KEEPER LIABILITY to show that there is no presumption that you were driver, and state clearly that you were not, and why you believe HX have failed to invoke the POFA, and thus why there is no 'keeper liability'.

The fact you are using a lay rep who happens to have been the driver won't even come up. The most a Judge will ask your lay rep is, 'was the Defendant driving?' and if they ask that, then the lay rep can state that the D was not driving and the D has opted not to name that person, and is defending as registered keeper because one of their defence points is that HX have failed to establish keeper liability, due to (what?).

reysham

@coupon-mad: Thank you for the explanation. From what I've understood I should include a paragraph as follows. Am I barking up the wrong tree?

5. In the POPLA Annual Report 2015, Henry M Gleenslade iterates quite clearly that the only person who can be deemed wholly responsible for a parking charge on private land is the driver of the vehicle in question at the time, and that this cannot be assumed to be the registered keeper. In addition, the details of the keeper can only be released under the POFA 2012 if there is ‘reasonable cause’ to do so, such as ‘tracing people responsible for driving off without paying for goods and services’. (Page 1, Appendix).

6. I have filed my Location History for the time and date in question on Page 2 of Appendix, which clearly shows that I was not the driver of the car at the time, and therefore why there is no keeper liability in this case. The POFA 2012 cannot be invoked as the keeper cannot be presumed to be the driver of an alleged infraction, and my evidence supports my assertion that I was not the driver at the time.

reysham

Hi,
If at all possible, I'd really appreciate if somebody could advise about the above post as I need to finalise my statement and send everything off to the court and claimant in the next few days.
Also, as before, do my documents need to go to the court and the Claimant only, and not the solicitors/

KeithP

reysham wrote: »

Hi,
Also, as before, do my documents need to go to the court and the Claimant only, and not the solicitors/

As well as going to the court, your documents need to go to the Claimant.

The address for serving documents on the Claimant is on your Claim Form - in the box headed - Address for sending documents and payments.

reysham

Hi KeithP. Thanks for the reply.
I don't have this document anywhere, certainly not with the papers from the court that outlines the date and time of the hearing. Will it be the addresses used to send the DS?
Thanks

KeithP

You are looking for your County Court Claim Form. You received it back in April. First mentioned by you in post #4 above.

No, not where you sent your Defence. You sent your Defence to the County Court Business Centre.

As said earlier:

The address for serving documents on the Claimant is on your Claim Form - in the box headed - Address for sending documents and payments.