Fine for Paid Parking Ticket - HX Car Park

Redx

still says Keeper Statement , as mentioned earlier , should say Witness


ROA = Right Of Audience


the right , or otherwise , of the rep who turns up for the claimant , many do not have the right to be heard

reysham

Thank you - I've made that change.

I'm really sorry, i still don't fully understand what you mean about the RoA. Are you saying that I may not have the right to have a lay rep BECAUSE the person I will have representing me happened to be the (unnamed) driver, OR regardless?
And when I will find out? Or do I complete the Order and submit beforehand?

Redx

We are usually talking about the representative for the claimant , there are rules about who can be a rep , especially if they represent the claimant

You are the defendant , so you have the right of audience and must attend

You must be there plus you can have a lay rep or McKenzie friend helping you on the day

I believe that an earlier reply says that your witness cannot be your lay rep , nor a lay rep be a witness , it's not a 2 for 1 deal

Coupon-mad

do I complete the Order and submit beforehand?

Nope your lay rep just tells the Usher when signing in, on the day, handing them the legal Order that we post about on every lay rep thread.

data dump

Can you think of a nicer phrase?

Also, read the thread I recently replied on tonight, where the person won in court today and the Judge helpfully pointed out that his watch or phone did not necessarily have the exact same time as the clock in the court room. Use that analogy, say the same in your WS, to explain why you are saying it is impossible that the timings alleged by the Claimant are right.

reysham

date dump - data extract?

Ok, so now i'm going to ask a pretty obvious question to clarify what Redx has explained, and I'm not sure how vague I should be:
If I do not name the driver, nor submit a statement of events from them, does the driver still need to, legally, attend as a witness?
If they do not, can they attend as lay rep?

KeithP

Paragraph 10 starts:

10. I have considered the Code of Practice ("CoP") of the British Parking Association ("BPA"), of which the Claimant is an accredited member.

HX Car Park Management Limited are members of the IPC's Accredited Operator Scheme so what ever it says in the BPA's CoP is irrelevant.

Paras 10 and 11 need suitable adjustment.

1505grandad

Re: Lay Rep - from the horses mouth.

An enquiry was made to a local County Court asking:-


Dear Sir,

Is it in order for a witness, who is producing a statement supporting the Claimant, also acts as a Lay Representative so that the Claimant, while attending the hearing, does not have to speak?.

I hope I have found the correct place for this query but if this is not the case it would be appreciated for any help you can provide.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Yours faithfully,



The reply from the Court:-



Dear Sir,


A claimant cannot be represented by anyone one other than a solicitor/barrister, or a litigation friend if they are a minor or have been certified as lacking the capacity to conduct their own affairs. A witness providing a statement in support of a claimant does not have right of audience to address a judge on the claimant’s behalf.


Yours faithfully,


Civil Section

The County Court at ........................



Substitute Defendant as Claimant (the conditions must surely be the same for each side) and the only conclusion is:-

Witness can not be a Lay Rep.

It is ok for someone to act as Lay Rep who is not a witness.

nosferatu1001

Reysham -- how on earth woudl the court know they were involved, if you dont provide a witness statement?
In other words the UNNAMED driver can certainly be a lay rep / mckenzie friend in court, as theyre not appearing as a witness (because theres no witness statement) and the court will not be able to directly quesiton them. Nor would htey have any *reason* to quesiton them.

reysham

Thank you. So to clarify:
Submit my witness statement as outlined above.
Submit evidence:

• Keeper Location History
• Driver Location History (should I include this, even if the driver is unnamed, as I have referred to it in the DS?)
• Annotated Satellite image of the car park
• ANPR images
• PND data extract
• Signage (HX Car Park in question)
• Signage - Beavis
• Video demonstrating manoeuvring around car park
• Appropriate CoP

I know I am probably reaching somebody's tether now but I just want absolute clarity so I don't shoot myself in the foot when I will most regret it.

Also,somebody (I apologise for my lack of memory of the poster) mentioned that BPA CoP cannot be used due to the car park not being a member: According to the signage within the car park, the BPA icon is clearly visible in the bottom right-hand corner; does this not show their affiliation with the BPA?

reysham

@coupon-mad - I don't know how to reply to specific parts of a message so:
You said that in a recent case the judge dismissed it based on the farcical use of time. I am trying to incorporate that into my statement but would like to know: can I reference a case without being specific? Or should I just make that point and let it stand? ie:

9. I would also like to point to the improbability of entry, parking and ticket purchase at a Pay and Display machine within a period 60 -120 seconds as a lone adult, never mind in the presence of a toddler who needs to be removed from a car and strapped into a pushchair. This data from the PDT machine calls the accuracy of the machine or the ANPR into question. The data extract is on Page 6 of Appendix. Indeed it is highly improbable that the time on every timepiece in this room is exactly the same at this very moment, so to rely on the timestamp of mechanised objects that have such discrepancy is irregular and unfair.