Gladstones LBC received for residential parking spot (New World Facilities East Essex LTD)

edited 9 May 2019 at 7:54PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
96 replies 4.5K views
BlueNineBlueNine Forumite
43 Posts
Second Anniversary 10 Posts
Hi all

I received a PCN back in October 2017 for not displaying a permit while parked in the space allocated with my rented flat.

Since then it's gone through 3 different collectors and now I've received a Letter Before Claim from Gladstones Solicitors, the reference begins with "10" and is instructing me to pay to Gladstones, so I think I'm right in thinking this is the real deal and not one of the collectors trying to put the sh*ts up me to pay.



Front - hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/swd75i.jpg

Back - hxxp://i67.tinypic.com/2emeukm.jpg




My AST doesn't mention the parking space at all. It does have a "quiet enjoyment" obligation: "during the tenancy the tenant may quietly enjoy the property without any unlawful interruption by the landlord or any person claiming under or in trust for the landlord".

Also for the sake of extra info, these are the notices that are up in the car park: hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/2d0mkr6.jpg although I'm fairly certain I could argue the placement of them (2 pillars as you enter the car park, but they're on the sides facing inwards - only visible if I was looking out the driver or passenger window as I enter)

I'm planning to send Gladstones the following letter which is basically a mashup of the ones in the NEWBIES thread
Reference: 10XXXX.XXX
Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 24th September 2018.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.
When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time, and of any signage on site which they claim formed a contract with the driver. I have yet to receive a reply in the 12 months that have since passed.

Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


Yours faithfully
BlueNine
Just thought I'd post on here to make sure I'm not missing anything obvious as this is my first time getting one of these (and I was kinda expecting NWFEE not to take it this far in the first place, can't remember the site that checks how often companies take these to court, but last time I checked they'd only done so like once before)
«13456710

Replies

  • onlyfoolsandparkingonlyfoolsandparking Forumite
    1.8K Posts
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭
    Looks pretty good rebuttal to me (others will have more experience in this than me) and if they have only done court once before all the better for you.


    A well crafted defence should see the dogs off but cant say that with 100% certainty, I'm sure your already firmly reading on what to do and when to do it, good luck
  • As you say that "My AST doesn't mention the parking space at all", do you have anything which indicates that you have a right to park in the parking space? For example, was the flat - is it a flat? - advertised as having a parking space?


    If it is a leasehold flat, the flat's lease will be of paramount importance. If you cannot get a copy of the lease any other way, you can obtain a copy from the Land Registry by completing for OC2 and paying a modest fee. You cannot do this online.


    What was the date of the letter of action?


    You have 30 days in which to reply to it. Subject to that limit, do not rush (or be rushed) into responding before you have the lease.
  • The_Slithy_ToveThe_Slithy_Tove Forumite
    3.9K Posts
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    ✭✭✭✭
    BlueNine wrote: »
    I posted back in October 2017 about receiving a PCN for not displaying a permit while parked in the space allocated with my rented flat.
    So why not post on your original thread, rather than starting another one, as per the forum rules.

    I can't be bothered to go looking for the back story; I'm sure many others won't either.
  • BlueNineBlueNine Forumite
    43 Posts
    Second Anniversary 10 Posts
    Thanks for the advice so far.


    @Eljayjay2 - Yes it is a flat and was advertised as having a parking space. We also received a parking permit and visitors parking permit from the building management company when we moved in. The date of the letter was 24th September so I've got some time to play with - Would the estate agent (who I deal with instead of landlord) likely have a copy of the lease, or would I be better trying to go to the landlord direct?


    @The Slithy Tove - I wouldn't expect people to be bothered tbh, the story so far is literally got a PCN, it went through 3 debt collectors who never gave me evidence and now I'm here. I also created a new thread for visibility - in my searches for advice I've searched for combinations of "Gladstones LBC", "New World Facilities East Essex" and "residential parking space". So "PCN in my own rented flat's space" wouldn't show for anyone in a similar situation looking for help/advice.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    100.3K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Would the estate agent (who I deal with instead of landlord) likely have a copy of the lease, or would I be better trying to go to the landlord direct?
    Is the landlord an individual flat owner? If so, then he/she will have a lease but they are under no obligation to share terms with you. But you can certainly ask (not the letting agent).

    Be polite and ask the landlord if they would kindly show you any excerpts from their lease about parking/vehicles, rights of way, right to peaceful enjoyment and the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.

    Also ask if they were consulted before the parking firm were brought in, and did they and 75% of consulted leaseholders agree to a variation of the lease, or was it just foisted on them?

    And before the PPC were there, was parking unfettered, and granted free to residents?

    And if they would, could they reply by email and tell you the above and if they support the PCN being cancelled as there is no legitimate interest in penalising genuine residents.

    May as well ask all at once, as the above will assist you.
    Yes it is a flat and was advertised as having a parking space.
    Ask the letting agent for a copy of the advert as you are being pursued by a grubby firm who are trying to interfere with your right to park.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Bluenine

    By all means, ask anyone you can think of for a copy of the lease; however, if you think you might be getting the bum’s rush, go the Land Registry route. It is more assured.
  • edited 24 October 2018 at 11:44PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    100.3K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 24 October 2018 at 11:44PM
    Don't send that waffly template. You Do NOT need a template to reply to a LBC.

    Gather the info you need and you can use it in your reply in your own words, stating what you require from Gs - and you do not need a huge list, nor the reply form.

    DO NOT REPLY TO ANY NEW POSTER WHO SENDS YOU A PM ON THIS BOARD. TELL US WHO IT IS AND WHAT THEY SAY, IF YOU GET ONE OFFERING TO 'HELP'.

    You might not know the agenda of the poster. Could be a parking firm, or anyone.

    Take the advice of the regular posters here on your thread - those with thousands or tens of thousands of posts to their username.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • SystemSystem Forumite
    177.9K Posts
    10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    @Bluenine

    What is the company number on the sign? Not clear from the pic you have provided. Is there a better one?
  • BlueNineBlueNine Forumite
    43 Posts
    Second Anniversary 10 Posts
    @Coupon-mad - As far as I'm aware the landlord owns just this (or a couple) of the flats, but not the whole block as I know at least one other has an owner-occupier who isn't my landlord.

    I'm thinking of going the OC2 route as I've never actually spoken to the landlord before and always go through the agent, so don't think it's likely they'll be receptive to being hassled by me asking to show me documents. I'll have a word with the letting agent about getting a copy of the advertisement though.


    @IamEmanresu - The company number is 8307526, there is a better pic but it's of the "no commercial vehicles" sign.



    In searching for the title number for the OC2 I've found that the parking space is a separate title to that of the flat but is still owned by the same (my) landlord. I'm assuming this is the title I need to file the OC2 for? but I'm not sure if it's the Property register, Propreitorship register, Charges register or something else entirely I'm meant to request in section 7 (asking for "Nature of document", "date of document" etc)
This discussion has been closed.
Latest MSE News and Guides

54 ways to ‘DIY it’

According to the MSE Forum

MSE Team Blog

£10 Christmas bonus

For benefits recipients

MSE News

Lidl '£10 off £40 spend' voucher

Via Metro or Daily Mail. Excludes NI

MSE Deals