UKPC and SCS - County Court claim form

AS2

hi All

hearing on Monday - any last pointers please?

KeithP

Have you seen this video?...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU

Don't forget to take a payslip or something with you to prove your loss of earnings for attending the hearing when you win.

AS2

yes thank you

AS2

We lost
1 out of the 4 PCN we won- it was in a P&D bay
The other 3 was on disabled bay, despite the images on PCN showing there’s no clear signage of the disabled bay timings etc the judge said ‘he’s going by common sense, and common sense tells him if there is a sign on the floor showing disbaled bay image I wouldn’t park there’. I thought the law is you need a clear signage pole on any types of bay?? I said but it’s not clear if it’s suspended or not etc. Didn’t want to hear any of it because his common sense is the law!!

Also at the beginning she denied she was not the driver of the vehicle of the 4 PCNs however for some reason the defendants defence and witness statements did not clearly state that. After a while the claimants side agreed to go ahead with amended claim she wasn’t the driver. But after that the judge we felt was on claimants side all day long.

We tried the POFA section 4 rule - that the claimaint can apparently claim against the keeper if the driver has not been identified after 28 days of issue PCN. However, the judge did not listen to us as the other sections must also need to be met for the claimant to chase he keeper. Can anyone clarify?

Should I appeal the judgement?

£600 total fine

Coupon-mad

How do 3 PCNs get £600 awarded, surely you were able to argue about the added costs in the way we advise, because they don't exist, are double recovery and are unrecoverable?

3 x £100 PCNs should only be about £375 if lost (if you argued properly about adding fake costs).

We tried the POFA section 4 rule - that the claimaint can apparently claim against the keeper if the driver has not been identified after 28 days of issue PCN. However, the judge did not listen to us as the other sections must also need to be met for the claimant to chase he keeper. Can anyone clarify?

I can't clarify until you do!

I don't understand what you are saying - do you mean the Judge found as fact that the Defendant WAS the driver and thus the POFA is irrelevant to the hearing?

AS2

3 x 130= 390 - argues judge says it’s acceptable. the other 210 were court fees etc I don’t have the exact wording right now just so disheartened!

Basically the POFA statd they can pursue the keeper:

Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4
The first condition is that the creditor—
(a) has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
(b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—
(a) has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8; or
(b) has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.
(2) Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.

AS2

Personally we should’ve said she was the driver rather than denying it, because then we could’ve fought the charges on a disbaled bay as discussed before such as doctor on call, there’s no periods of observation etc. Maybe then we would’ve won those tickets.

Coupon-mad

3 x 130= 390 - argues judge says it’s acceptable. the other 210 were court fees etc I don’t have the exact wording right now just so disheartened!

No, they were not.

The claim cost them well under £100 to file, including the hearing fee, and you needed to argue against those extra fake costs about that.

Should have been £375 of thereabouts. How did the higher sums get awarded without you being able to pipe up that they were not recoverable or true?

I know what the POFA says, I saw it and learned about those words before it even became law! I know when the PPC has the right to recover from a keeper, and when they do not.

Personally we should’ve said she was the driver rather than denying it, because then we could’ve fought the charges on a disbaled bay as discussed before such as doctor on call, there’s no periods of observation etc. Maybe then we would’ve won those tickets.

I agree, the Defendant should have taken that honest stance from the start.

So did the Judge intimate that he/she believed she was the driver and so the POFA is irrelevant anyway?

AS2

Yes basically the judge did intimate she was the driver.

I was advised not to admit you are the driver....

Can I still appeal the costs or is it too late?

Coupon-mad

You could try, but appeal costs you £110 I think (not guaranteed to be grate leave to appeal) and you should have mentioned the costs at the time when you knew you'd lost and dealt with it head on at the hearing by way of damage limitation.

If you try, you would be appealing on the 'quantum' alone, because the parking charges were only £100 x 3 and the Beavis case and the POFA and CPRs all disallow added costs on parking charges, not least because they were never incurred and it is not justified or proportionate to a £300 claim to double it.